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Warmskin
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 Posted - 07/07/2011 : 7:31:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by balataf
I asm not aware of the US claiming sovereignty over any other nation or area. Hell, we haven't even had an occupation since Iraq 2005.
Maybe for once, you'll have integrety
I ordinarily skip reading your malicious posts, full of political techie talk, filled with unknowing philsopical blunders, lack of clear vision, personal insults, word-twisting, word-parsing, presentations half-told truths that hope the readers will be fooled by your omisions. Other than that, your statements may actually have some value. One of your extreme statements that they are no troops on Iraq is patently ridiculous.
Your Clinton-esque parsing of words is over the top. There are plenty of American troops in Iraq, and the Iraqis want them gone - NOW!! Yet, you pompously say that Iraq is not occupied by one single American troop. How arrogant! But, you're a neonconservative at heart, and you by necessity have to live on lies, such as the "alliance between Bin Laden and Saddam," when they were on opposite sides of many topics, and the lies about Saddam being able to use mass weapons on America, when all they had were the remnants of the gas that neocon Rumsfeld sold them. Why do insist on lies, and then try to bury them with you word parsing ?
It is obvious that your statements end up defending anti-American values, treachery overseas, fanatical military adventures overseas regarldess of loss of life to all inncocent people, your useless and fanatical defense of the Iraq war, as if there were really some people that you could successfully convert to thinking this war defended the USA, and that it's always good to start wars that make the world safe for democracy, which this nation never has had and is prohibited to the USA, by the Constitution.
Further your statements that proclaim innocent naivete about AIPAC are silly. Every candidate must appear at their podium to profess undying and absolute devotion to them, and to each and every crime against humanity they represent, even if they attack America. McCain, Palin, Obama, Hillary!, Biden, they all have to demean themselves and profess more loyalty to Israel than they do the US Constitution. AIPAC can make or break a candidate, and they all know it. Otherwise, who would really care about some little tiny state that is many miles from our shore? Do Palin, Biden, Obama, Hillary!, McCain, and Bush, have the same shameless loyalty to any other nation? Is it stated in the US Constitution that Americans must prop up Israel?
Maybe because you were a Democrat for so many years would recommend me to be more lenient in my statements, but then I don't see any Reagan-esque substance to any statements you have made. They could all have come from the mouth of Richard Perle.
You know what you advocate, and I do, too. It's that you can't have your statedly hidden motivations uncovered. That is - making the GOP over into a Democratic party of the earlier part of the last century. That includes all the Democrats' wars of the 1900s, and some of their welfare programs, which neocons are fine with. You can take a fellow out of the Democratic Party, but you can't take the Democrat-ness out of a fellow.
World War I and II, Korea, Vietnam, and Kosovo are right out of your playbook. That is why you are very grateful for the occurence of Iraq war, but seem to have no problems, as stated, with the thousands of American deaths, and the millions of homeless people the USA has caused in Iraq, most of who want to see us leave. You have never been able to refute the letter the neocon staffed PNAC group presented to Clinton urging war against Iraq in the 1990s. You have never been able to to surpress in this forum that the US gov't lied repeatedly to get us into the infamous war. In politicometrics you stated the desirablity of the war and how great it would be in Iraq. Yet, the Iraqi people want us out. What went wrong with all you grand visions of making Iraq so much better? Are they now better off. A poll would tell you that they don't think so, and please don't be so arrogant about your knowing what is better for the Iraqis than they know.
It's best to leave the GOP to the people who defend its inherent values, instead of leaving it to the neocons, and all their pressure groups, like AIPAC. You need to learn this, and respect it, rather than trying to fool the readers into thinking that no influence could ever come out of AIPAC, whose memebers include people arrested for spying on America. Add to that, PNAC, the people who also urged the idiot we had as president from 2001 to 2009 to fight a war in Iraq. Yet, you defend this as if it were a purely American-inspired war, which of course is utter nonsense. The only state that benefitted from this was Israel. As much as you defend each and every crime against humanity, and war crimes, that our special ally commits, I suppose that you might project AIPAC as being a bunch of pleading, poor waifs who only want trillions of $$ spent on it, is really all that benevolent.
Whatever kinds of policital statements you make have nothing to do with the heart and soul of the GOP. It's people that make the same pronouncements that drove people out of the GOP, including some very loyal and famous Republicans. The new GOP is neoconism personified, and the folks who do not stop and think will go on believing that what passes for Republicanism today is really the GOP. The Democratic-Republican party is completely alien to true GOP principles. The neocons converted the party with all their lies, clever word-smithing, and propaganda. They have been at it for a long time. The true GOP was something that did not fit their ideals. "Two Cheers for Capitalism," by Irving Cristol was the one of the hallmarks for the malicious overturning of the GOP away from its traditional values.
I sincerely doubt that your statements are designed to be supportive of real Republicanism. All they do is promote neoconservatism, even though you pretend to think that they are just a bunch of tired old men who are disappearing, or that they do not dominate the GOP right now. If they did not dominate the GOP, then the GOP could resume its real stances of the past, instead of having to be stuck with the albaotross of the neocons' fanatical lust for war and destruction.
Your statement that the USA has no empire or foreign domination is silly on the face of it. The USA bullies plenty of countries, and can't seem to mind its own business. We did not used to be that way, until the Wilsons, Roosevelts, LBJs, Clintons came along. Add Bush to that list because he had almost no conservative convictions. How many wars has Canada started lately? Right- none. They are intelligent, while America is stupid. We have turned out backs on our heritage, thanks to people who advocate both neoconservatism and neoliberalism, and you're one of them. Over 130 nations have the USA in them to a degree that staggers the imagination, vis-a-vis normal nations. These countries have intelligent people and don't need expensive nursemaiding. It's demeaning to them. I know, I was overseas doing that sort of thing. Fortunately for the USA, I was not the usual ugly American overseas making people hate America. Currently, I have never known for this country to be so hated and resented as it is today. That did not happen by accident.
The neo-thinking that America has to be everywhere at all times is insane, yet there are people who defend this. The cost is tremendous to the taxpayers. It was never the nature of America to be pushing its way into everyone esle's business, and sending troops all over the world, trying to insinuate American interests where they do not belong.
You always seem to resort to wordsmithing, and saying that the American taxpayer must finance all this meddling overseas; this is beyond description. It's not part of the American heritage, once you get past the era of neo-liberalism on the one hand and the neconservatism on the other.
Let me help you with neoliberalism. It started when Wilson abandoned classical liberalism and was advised to go to war, approve the income tax and the Federal Reserve. It was a new age of centralizing and being so-called "progressive." Gone were the old ways of seeing the nation and the world. It was the modern vision of America. The classical liberalism staggered on until FDR. After that, they died off as an dominant sector of the Democratic Party. Some can well make the case that they eventually turned up generations later in the Libertarian Party. Even Al Smith, the Democrat's 1928 candidate, condemned the direction of FDR's pretended cure for the depression. Smith was still a classical liberal. The Libertarians, although not a direct descendant of the old style Democrats, both have held remarkably similar views.
So, today we have the neoliberals, of socialists, and the neocons, the war and hegemony fanatics. They are the current two major parties. The conversion of the Democratic Party took place much sooner that that of the GOP.
Now that I have given you a clearer version of who the parties are, you can see the logic, if you don't wordsmith, of leaving the GOP, even as some Democrats left their party in the 1960s, namely the South.
So, go on with your statements. I was a Republican for almost all my life. I have a better sense of that party than you could ever hope to have. I left the party in the second half of the Bush (the younger) because I knew, deep down in my gut, that the party had been taken over by the neocons. It shows, and I am not fooled by it or by your crafty words. You can be, because of your relatively short time as being a party participant. My belonging was built on principles, not on sabotaging the party's traditional stances. That is the difference between you and me.
Since the GOP has abandoned its principles, I moved over to the Libertarian Party, where once again I am affiliated with people who advocate the original intent of our Founders, while you advocate the destruction of our heritage, through your support of everything neocon, which is really a foreign nations idea of America. If we were s farm crops, this could be said -- I'm organic, and I'd say you would be genetically modified. Anyone who is an advocate of neoconservatism and their idealogical travesties could not be equated with the orginal purpose of America, and cannot be supported in any way in the Founder's writings, and is an effective enemy of the GOP.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do than babysit your statements in this forum, and I like posting true stories. I fully expect you will make statements that sound like they were straight out of Clinton's mouth, as in "Ah did not have sex with that woman, not once." Pretty bad that your statements have to go there. All I do is bring up facts, and then put in them in their honest perspective within political philosophy.
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?"
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Warmskin
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Posted - 07/07/2011 : 9:15:10 PM
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A great document about the Nazis in our time. Yep, our special ally. Who would have thought?
This is well worth a watch to any thinking American. This explains the source of 911. We just need to learn it, and as George Washington pointed out to us a long time ago, don't have allies.
This video is all but banned on "American news." This video explains concisely why Americans are not allowed to see much of the truth. Showing this may or not bother the other point of view expressed awkwardly on this thread, but there is nothing I can do about that than try to change their stated outlook into one that is good for America, once and for all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycgi0hUihCs
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?"
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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old hippie
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Posted - 07/08/2011 : 12:42:27 AM
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Uhhh. . .
Have you two noticed that no one else is writing to this topic, and that you are not listening to each other?
If all either of you want is the chance to rant, it's working. But if there was any chance that someone wanted a discussion, with an exchange of ideas and the possibility that one might be convinced by the other, well it doesn't look like this is it.
Okay - you can have your corner back now.
Dum vivimus, vivamus!
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Warmskin
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Posted - 07/08/2011 : 03:19:07 AM
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Judging by the number of people who read this thread, it seems to attract a lot of readers. So, who knows. I, for one, make a lot of posts on many other threads here, too, and very fortunately, they are light-hearted.
Thank you for your comments.
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?"
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Warmskin
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Posted - 07/08/2011 : 03:21:55 AM
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This video you have to like. Ron Paul takes on the establishment in the last debate. This clip shows him doing just that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsZfSJ3V4bc
Very refreshing, and it's wonderful to hear the truth for a change. Much better than the usual fare.
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?"
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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balataf
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/10/2011 : 1:33:05 PM
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Mr. Warmskin is unfortunately correct that one foreign power has undue influence over American policy, as this NYT article disturbingly shows.
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Gen. Tso’s Default Chicken By DAVID E. SANGER July 9, 2011FINALLY
President Obama and Congressional leaders began engaging in serious discussions last week over the trillions in cuts it would take for a deal to raise the debt ceiling before the default deadline of Aug. 2.
But the most important meetings on the subject may be sessions President Obama is not holding — at least not yet — with America’s lenders, starting with residents of Zhongnanhai, the tranquil-looking leadership compound next door to the Forbidden City in Beijing. It would not be politically wise for either Democrats or Republicans to suggest that the Chinese have any voice in how deeply Medicaid or Social Security is cut, or whether taxes should be raised on wealthier Americans.
But one senior American Treasury official noted the other evening, as his colleagues engaged in their giant game of default chicken, that sooner or later whatever agreement goes through the House and the Senate will have to pass muster, at least informally, in the Great Hall of the People. “You know how the generals always say that when it comes to our strategy in Afghanistan, the enemy has a vote?” he asked. “Well, when it comes to borrowing a few trillion dollars, the Chinese have a vote, too.”
The nature of that Chinese vote is frequently mischaracterized. It’s not as if the Chinese are about to sell the several trillion dollars in United States Treasury bills they already hold; the last thing they want to do is devalue one of their own biggest assets. But in ways that were inconceivable just a few years ago, the Chinese have used both formal and informal meetings with their American counterparts to explore whether America’s plan for reducing its debt is credible — and to remind American officials that they have options to gradually shift their money, say, to oil wells in Africa or real estate in the Middle East.
Two years ago, at the first big annual “strategic and economic review” between the Obama team and Chinese officials, the Chinese asked Peter Orszag, then the head of the Office of Management and Budget, to explain in agonizing detail how the administration planned to pay for its health-care overhaul. The Chinese were not particularly interested in whether Americans used a single-payer option or insured children around the land; they wanted to know how it would affect the deficit.
Subsequent sessions have not been as specific. But the Chinese have hinted that if Americans think they can borrow forever without paying higher interest rates, they should think again.
Much of this is chest-pounding, of course. The Chinese see a moment of strategic advantage as America devolves into a hard-to-comprehend debate about whether its Congress will authorize paying back money it has already borrowed and spent. Most countries, one senior Chinese financial official noted with a touch of sarcasm, think about how much they want to pay back before they borrow, not after. (Perhaps that explains why the concept of a “debt limit” is a purely American invention.)
Robert D. Hormats, a former top executive at Goldman Sachs, and now under secretary of state for economic affairs, notes a deeper paradox: America’s message to the Chinese, and other Asian partners, may cut down on how much America can borrow. Its message to surplus countries like China is, “You should consume more and save less,” he said. If they listen, “there will be fewer funds available to buy bonds and other assets here.”
In fact, the Chinese are coming to that conclusion all by themselves. Though the country is experiencing a construction boom at home, many of their cities and towns are deeply in debt, and may need bailouts. Same for the banks in an overheated Chinese property market.
All this is making the Chinese a bit more cautious. Barry Eichengreen, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley, said, “The Chinese are understandably anxious about having so many eggs in one currency basket” — meaning dollar-denominated assets. “They don’t need all those dollars to control their exchange rates,” he said (but they need some to manipulate rates enough to keep their exports cheap).
The good news is that even for the Chinese, the United States is a more attractive place to park surpluses than Greece-obsessed Europe or a tsunami-racked, politically paralyzed Japan.
But as the United States heads into one of its periodic flirtations with isolationism — to bring home the troops and batten down the hatches — it is worth remembering that whatever spending-and-revenue plan emerges must pass an unspoken credibility test abroad.
No lender, not even the mandarins of Zhongnanhai, can dictate how much America spends. But they can influence how much America will have to pay to borrow the cash — and that is the giant, unpredictable variable in whether Americans can bring a record debt load under control.
David Sanger is the chief Washington correspondent of The New York Times.
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My long-term projection has been, for the past 20 years, that China
is facing great turmoil in the 2019-2021 era.
The lack of 50 million women, a sexual imbalance from the one child
policy, combines with uneven growth that sent millions from the cities
back to primitive villages with no jobs, land problems, etc, etc.
Politicometrically, regimes get a major shakeup at their 72-year points,
as the US did with the Civil War, and dozens of other examples.
(See Politicometrics.) That is 2021, and part of a 36-year cycle, that
also appears in dozens of nations.
1912 Revolution
1949 Communist takeover
1985 Deng's Reforms
2021 ??
Russia for Compoarison
1881 Narodnik Reforms
1917 Russian Revolution
1953 Reforms at Stalin;s Death
1989 Perestroika
The largest American problem comes if, during this crisis, a desperate China dumps alot of our debt due to their extreme need. Other than the Islamic Terrorist problems, this is the greatest foreign policy problem.
But there are impacts on other questions, such as how many troops we continue to have in Iraq after the Occupation ended in 2005, when sovereignty was returned to Iraqi authority.
The answer on China: Sharply REDUCE our national debt before the crisis.
I plan, around 2019 to put most of my resources into "selling short" on Chinese stocks.
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Edited by - balataf on 07/10/2011 1:56:29 PM |
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Warmskin
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Posted - 07/12/2011 : 02:27:33 AM
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Here is a video demonstrating how much power our special ally has over us, and how they use bullying tactics on us if we object.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0yOa7FrgUg&feature=related
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?"
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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HomeNudist
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balataf
Forum Member
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Posted - 07/12/2011 : 4:14:44 PM
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Homenude, can't you see it? The Big Bad democracies are ganging up to pick on Hama, Hezbollah, AlQueda, and a dozen others among the poor litle Terrorist Networks!
And those Israelis were just plain mean when they seized 50 tons of explosives, ammunition and weapons from the Iranian ship a few months ago. Gee, those Palestinians need all that good stuff for birthday party fireworks. After all, they're puzzled that someone would be so provocative as to drive a schoolbus in front of where they were firing off an innocent anti-tank rocket.
But then, among some people, supporting decency and basic morality will get you labeled as a horrible, terrible Neocon even if ypu belong to a different Israel-supporting Republican faction.
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Edited by - balataf on 07/12/2011 4:35:22 PM |
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HomeNudist
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Posted - 07/12/2011 : 4:29:23 PM
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I hear ya balataf.
I just get a wee bit tired of the broken record bigot spewing hate on this wonderful site. I decided that I would post exposing some of the vile propaganda he has bought into.
BTW, if neocon means nudist I guess I can live with that . . .
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Edited by - HomeNudist on 07/12/2011 5:15:44 PM |
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Warmskin
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Posted - 07/15/2011 : 03:48:33 AM
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I never have supported those nations who attack us. Appears that there are those in this thread who have undying support for those who attack the USA. Hint - It's not I. Yet these guys put me down.
What part of attack the USA do you not understand. When a country drops napalm on our Navy ships, they love it, and I don't. They cheer when a country shells our Navy ships, but I don't. They wave their pom-poms when their naval ships shoot torpedos at the US Naval ships, but I don't. Typical neocons -- no love for the concept of America, but only for that country that attacked our US Navy. All you have done in the thread is support that country, as a nation, that attacked us.
That is all you need to know when you read their statements. The USA has been attacked by only one country, and by their official military weapons. Read about it here:
http://www.ussliberty.org
I could never associate with people who defend an attack on the USA, or weasel-word their statements to make it look like the contents of the abovementioned website was lying, even though it was written by a US Navy officer.
Face it, you only have loyalty to our attackers judging by your anti-American sentiments, stated over and over.
http://www.ussliberty.org
You can keep your cherished neoconsertavism for yourselves. I'll be the designated American in this thread. The definition of neoconism is to perpetuate war now and forever.
And Americans wonder why we have so much troubles with our fiscal policy. Of course these two individuals are not bothered by the thousands of deaths of Americans, and the 10s of thousands of those injured in the Iraqi war, and for what? Have they no conscience? Have they no humanity for someone who comes home with permanent and disabling medical conditions, because of this travesty of a war.
Even the GOP congress, in large part, is quietly admitting that the war was stupid. Included in that are Congressman McClintock of Calif.
Have you two read the PNAC website, where the neocons urged war before 2001? Of course not. They would rather have the readers think that the Iraqi war was thought up right after 911. It had nothing to do with 911. Nothing, and the CIA knew it.
So, guys, you keep on urging more deaths, destruction, as long as it is the other guy who suffers and not you. Now there is a manly attitude!
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?"
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Warmskin
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Posted - 07/15/2011 : 04:24:20 AM
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Here is a website that exposes Balataf's and HomeNudist's little statemental tricks. Ohhh, this must hurt to hear it. This is a journalist interviewing a former parliament member of the Knesset. I'd hate to be Balataf or HomeNudist when this is listened to, judging by their statements that make personal insults.
Remember, this is not I saying this, but a Knesset member. She is just being honest, and sheds light on foreign relations. I admire her, as I admire many people from her country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0kWAqZxJVE&feature=related
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?"
Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Country: USA
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HomeNudist
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Posted - 07/15/2011 : 12:33:40 PM
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No explanation how the dead teen rose from the dead and walked to rejoin his own funeral?
I also have video links to "wounded" Palestinians who when they reach the ambulance get up and walk away.
I also have video links to palestinian ambulances transporting weapons and ammunition.
I also have video links to how the Al Dura event was staged.
I also have photos of a palestinian woman holding a complete .50 cal cartridge, claiming it is one of the bullets that was fired into her home. (note: a fired bullet is just the pointy thing on one end of a cartridge.)
I also have video links to video of dancing in the streets and passing out sweets in Ramallah to celebrate the 9/11 attacks.
I said nothing one way or the other about the USS Liberty. That was one incident 44 years ago. It has no relevance to what is happening today. Just as when England attacked us in 1812 and burned the White House to the ground has no relevance to what in happening today.
You brought up our brave soldiers in Iraq. Yet you fail to mention they are less likely to be shot than a citizen in "gun free" Chicago.
BTW, none of this has anything to do with this forum unless and until both sides start fighting in the nude.
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balataf
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Posted - 07/15/2011 : 3:02:40 PM
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As to nudist relevance: "general discussion - post anytghing off-topic here."
From my experiences in Viet Nam, I do seem to remember, and will confirm, that it really is the bullet part that flies thru the air.
Among the nations we've fought wars with are Britain (including Canada) France, Mexico, Spain, Germany, Austria, Hungary, Turkey, Bulgaria, Italy, Thailand, Japan, N Korea, China, N. Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan there were also about 15 minor ones all around the Caribbean, like Dominican Rep. Panama, and Haiti.
Like Israel, None of these are under the same leaders as today. Nor, except partly for Afganistan,, does the US.
Hey, the North Viets tried to kill me PERSONALLY, and did so to some friends withinn a few yards of me.
I don't particularly like Israel, as W seems to imagine, but I don't hate itn either. W appears to say that if you don;t hate Israel, you are a "fake" American.
This is a wrong s if I labelled W a supporter of Obama because of his greater tilt toward the Palestinians that is even much stronger on the socialist Left.
W does not asppreciate that, with 30 or 40 seperate issues going on at once, that there are multiple factions. While most pro-palestinian Americns are very Left wing Democrats, this is not true of all. So it is with Neocons and other patriotic Americans.
Issues change over time. Israel started out as socialistic with heavy left-wing support which is now anti-Israel.
As to the Neocons moving from the Democrats, so did Reagan, who had so many of them running his foreign policy.
The Hamilton/Jefferson sides have switched Parties several times in US history. But there is an unbroken direct line from Jefferson to Obama. altho it isd a little more rocky at times, it is easy to trace from the Washington-Hamilton administration thru Federalists, Whigs and Republicans down to whoever the voters pick next, probably Perry if he runs, Like Reagan, he starte3d out as a Democrat.
I didn't! I switched to Dem in 1964, and back to Rep. in 1995, as issues changed, particularly in foreign policy, and withg my Wife's involvement against Abortion.
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Edited by - balataf on 07/15/2011 4:07:19 PM |
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HomeNudist
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Posted - 07/15/2011 : 5:29:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Warmskin
Here is a website that exposes Balataf's and HomeNudist's little statemental tricks. Ohhh, this must hurt to hear it.
There were no tricks in my statement, other than it was true. In post after post, after post, after post, after post, after post, after post, after post, after post, after post, (broken record) you have singled out one group of people to demean and slander. (definition of a bigot) And yes, I did look at the link you posted, I NEVER said you were Anti-semitic. I said a bigot. There is a difference.
No exaggeration on my part. So , far, on this topic you have mentioned the USS Liberty 9 times, our special ally 10 times, and you have mentioned AIPAC 19 times.
broken record...(click)...broken record...(click)...broken record...(click)...broken record...(click)...broken record...(click)...
Kinda reminds me of what Goebbels said: If you repeat it often enough, people will start to believe it.
Am I defending Israel over the United States? No. Just pointing out your unbalanced attacks on one single Nation.
Oh, and just because I do like to honor the theme of this website, I posted this while nude . . . 
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Edited by - HomeNudist on 07/15/2011 5:38:37 PM |
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