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nudeguy
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 Posted - 10/04/2006 : 9:07:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nudeguy
[quote]Originally posted by HG8Harrier
On a more serious note: We're talking about nudism here... and the passing of some unfortunate souls... if it gets into more debate over gun control, and if a Moderator is watching, please close this thread down!
With due respects HG8, I believe the Moderator knows the rules of this forum, which don't appear to have been violated by anyone in this thread. I recall at least one other thread that debated gun rights and the discussion eventually wore itself out. This one will too.
This is not just a forum to talk about nudism, but also a venue for nudists to express themselves. That disgusting event two days ago affected the emotions of millions of people. If our good friends find it therapeutic to vent here, why not allow them that Freedom of Speech?
I will happily oppose some of the views posted in this forum. Nevertheless as an American I never oppose anyone's right to express those views. Nor do I oppose anyone's right to click away from this thread and stop reading it if he or she becomes tired of the subject matter.
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Edited by - nudeguy on 10/04/2006 9:08:16 PM |
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nudeguy
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Posted - 10/04/2006 : 9:13:06 PM
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Hey, something a little funny just occurred to me. Who started this topic?
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Edited by - nudeguy on 10/04/2006 9:14:44 PM |
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Jim in Boston
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Posted - 10/04/2006 : 9:51:46 PM
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Hey: Just think: if an honest citizen had been packing heat at the proper time, that wacko might have been stopped. Because more of us are honest and upright people, the more of us who are armed, the fewer crooks will get away with whatever they try to do. By disarming the populace you would be empowering the bad guys.
jameslkirtleyjr
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nudeguy
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Posted - 10/07/2006 : 11:30:09 AM
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Jim, just the other day I read that a school teacher (I don't remember where) was permitted by his local court to carry a firearm on the job. Unfortunately the Amish are loathe to carry defensive weapons due to their peaceful nature. While they are generally known to associate primarily with those of their own community, thereby "insulating" themselves from the rest of the world to some degree, they possess a deeply religious and trusting nature toward strangers. It never occurred to them, or anyone else, that someone might invade their people and carry out such acts. The girls in that Nickel Mines schoolhouse reportedly wanted to pray with Roberts before he carried out his crimes. I hope with all my heart that this event doesn't give other criminals ideas and force the Amish to take extreme protective measures. If that were to happen, my guess is that they would bring in security from the outside. I can't imagine an Amish man killing another human being under any circumstances unless he was mentally disturbed (this has been known to happen on a few occasions). The entire world would be a wonderful place if everyone shared that attitude.
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Jim in Boston
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Posted - 10/07/2006 : 9:51:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by NudeLori
I have to get in on this. First off, I am NO FAN of guns, not at all. I really see no reason to have them at all - they are dangerous no matter how well trained you are to use them. That said, to somehow imply that the availability of guns turned this "otherwise law abiding citizen" into a homicidal maniac flies in the face of reality.
As for the comment that we are "too tolerant of religion" and Christians & Muslims are the problem in this world, read the Bible and the Qu'uran. They are both pretty clear about the value of human life (ever heard of "Thou Shall Not Kill"? It's a pretty big one). Yes, people do horrible things in the name of religion, but again, that's the fault of individual(s), not the religions that they are clearly paying no attention to.
And I suppose that the folks who ran the airplanes into the world trade center in new york were ignorant of the Koran and otherwise renegades with respect to their religion? Where else would they get their 72 virgins?
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openess
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Posted - 10/08/2006 : 06:42:22 AM
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Even if they weren't ignorant of the Koran, and in fact thought they were following its guidance, that doesn't in and of itself indict religion. If their acts were truly the result of following the Koran and their religion, then it would be reasonable to expect that the hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide would be killing all the infidels they could get their hands on. Since that's not happening, the 9/11 events are most likely the actions of people primarily motivated by other than non-religious factors. Yes, some of them may have truly been convinced by their (all too human) leadership that they were doing the bidding of their religion, but that doesn't make it so.
I think the real motivation behind the 9/11 attacks was not religion, but instead something as old as humankind - the quest for power. As has happened many times in history, those seeking power package their quest in an ideological wrapper, often religion, to obscure their true goals and to insure a supply of gullible recruits.
The fact that bad people choose to use religion to do bad things, doesn't logically lead to the conclusion that religion itself is bad. Even if you wanted to make that case, to be fair you'd also have to take into account all the good religion has brought to human lives.
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Edited by - openess on 10/08/2006 06:48:14 AM |
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balataf
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Posted - 10/10/2006 : 11:09:55 PM
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Think about being married to 72 sadly inexperienced virgins?
Sometimes I've got enuf trouble merely dealing with just one Wife!
As a serious question, what do "deserving" females get as an equivalent?
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Jim in Boston
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Posted - 10/11/2006 : 9:00:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by NudeLori
I have to get in on this. First off, I am NO FAN of guns, not at all. I really see no reason to have them at all - they are dangerous no matter how well trained you are to use them. That said, to somehow imply that the availability of guns turned this "otherwise law abiding citizen" into a homicidal maniac flies in the face of reality.
As for the comment that we are "too tolerant of religion" and Christians & Muslims are the problem in this world, read the Bible and the Qu'uran. They are both pretty clear about the value of human life (ever heard of "Thou Shall Not Kill"? It's a pretty big one). Yes, people do horrible things in the name of religion, but again, that's the fault of individual(s), not the religions that they are clearly paying no attention to.
Do you really believe that practitioners of these two religions really value your life? It is probably useless to try to plumb the thoughts of Moslems, but you do know something about Christians. The "right to life" crowd uses your shared religion to try to control your behavior. They do not revere, as they say, "Life", but they use this idea to promote their notion of how you should behave.
All of the major religions of the world say that they know the 'truth'. They all lie. There is no way that they could know what they claim. So why should anyone trust them in anything they say?
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openess
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Posted - 10/12/2006 : 05:24:14 AM
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How can one know that "they" don't revere life? Is the thinking that because some humans have killed in the name of religion, then all religious humans don't revere life? Is that the "logic"?
As for "truth" and "lie", what are their definitions? I think truth is a very personal and subjective concept when it comes to topics like religion. Truth is what we believe it to be. Christians, Muslims and atheists are all people of faith - accepting as truth what they cannot prove to be true.
The definition of the word "lie" has become very elastic in recent years. A lie used to be when you knew something was "A" and you said it was "B". Now a lie is when you think something was "A" and it turns out you were wrong.
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NudeLori
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Posted - 10/12/2006 : 9:48:49 PM
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Jim in Boston, I don't know if it is your intent or not, but you come off as very hostile. Thats really not necessary - you can debate points with out trying to belittle the other person.
Since you asked, though, I will answer. Yes, I do believe that people who practice the respective religions you mention value my life. They may not agree with me or you on certain things, but that hardly means they see no value in my (or your) life. From your comments, I take it that you don't have any religious beliefs. That is your right. But don't tell me that what I believe is a lie simply because you don't agree with me.
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calmnude
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Posted - 10/13/2006 : 01:04:17 AM
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I think those who truly believe in their religions are no harm to anyone.
However, those who use precepts of religion to further personal and political wants are simply manipulating these beliefs to a small vocal minority to carry out their agenda.
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runrdad
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Posted - 10/13/2006 : 09:28:25 AM
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Man is a very wicked as well as loving being. But man also uses whatever is at his/her disposal to get what they want. You can justify anything via the Bible and I am sure you can with the Koran. But you have to knit-pic and pull out a passage here and there to do it. A few words from one small part of each is not enough to justify anything. It takes the whole work to do that. But people take those bits and pieces to make their point, both good and bad. History is littered with these people/groups and the future will be littered with them too. That is if we have much of a future left.
I've been to hell but didn't stay long enough to talk to the devil.
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iamRoy
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Posted - 10/13/2006 : 10:18:27 PM
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Remember one fact. When it is unlawful to have a gun, only those who are unlawful will have guns so you can no longer protect yourself from these people. And you can be sure they will still have guns and use them for bad things.
Roy
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hairless2006
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Posted - 10/14/2006 : 02:03:15 AM
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Yes there is wickedness in humanbeings and it is my belief that if you outlawed guns entirely man would use a rock to kill. People just must understand people really do just kill people the method is just what is available. I am a veteran I believe everyone should learn to shoot a gun and the reasons are simple respect of it. If kids were taught about guns, and how to safely us them they wouldn't just pick one up unaware of there danger.
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OLD BUZZARD
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Posted - 05/25/2008 : 12:15:20 PM
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guns DONT KILL people,people kill people,a gun has to be picked up and loaded,the gun has to be pionted at a target and the action has to be worked,the gun cant do this by it self.it has to be done by a human and there lies the problem. dont blame the gun,blame the bad person,not the second amendment or the honest and law abiding citizen........enough said..old buzzard
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Why we should rethink the 2nd Amendment
