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HG8Harrier
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Posted - 10/03/2006 : 12:10:11 PM
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Lori,
Is there a single religion that condones killing? (Except for an eye for an eye or justified?) That is a rhetorical question, because nothing that we traditionally define as a religion does. Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Hindu Dharma, Christianity, Islam, Judaism; anything larger than the Thugee cults of the early 20th Century does not condone killing.
Dan,
Hear hear! I meant for this to vent my frustration at about six (depending on where you look) Amish schoolgirls getting killed NOT opening a can of worms. It came out that way, BUT let's just get back to being nude.
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runrdad
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 Posted - 10/03/2006 : 12:16:41 PM
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I agree with HG8, let's get back to happier topics. We all agree that it is a horrible thing that occurred. We all have an opinion on what caused it and how to fix it. That is what is great about this country. Now back to the business of making everyone friendlier and naked.
I've been to hell but didn't stay long enough to talk to the devil.
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Country: USA
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Mnstnz
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Posted - 10/03/2006 : 12:23:43 PM
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Its not a can of worms to me, and it is a sad thing for the loss of life for the young ladies. We can all feel the sorrow for that. The taking of life in such a senceless manner is always sad. All we can do is make sure we as individuals do not fall into that trap of feeling we need to do others harm. As for religions I could talk for hours on them, lol, so i won't.
Live happy and live nude ALL!
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Country: USA
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CopperQuail
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Posted - 10/03/2006 : 3:06:32 PM
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If someone is breaking into my house, I want to face him with something better than a broomstick. I'm not going to call up some anti-gun advocate to come defend me and my family with his broomstick. As for the police, they are probably off having to deal with some complaint about somebody sunbathing nude in thier backyard.
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Country: USA
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NudeLori
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/03/2006 : 3:25:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HG8Harrier
Lori,
Is there a single religion that condones killing? (Except for an eye for an eye or justified?) That is a rhetorical question, because nothing that we traditionally define as a religion does. Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Hindu Dharma, Christianity, Islam, Judaism; anything larger than the Thugee cults of the early 20th Century does not condone killing.
Uhhhh....are you agreeing with me then? That was my point (though I did not expand it out as far as you did), religions do not condone killing. Someone had stated that Christians and Muslims were the problem. I was saying the problem is people contorting religion to suit there own sick purposes
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Mnstnz
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Posted - 10/03/2006 : 3:30:28 PM
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Lori I do beleive we agree with you
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Country: USA
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allnaturalwife
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/03/2006 : 7:34:12 PM
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I tend to stay away from these topics but I will give my .02 cents anyway here. As far as violence in the world..it will ALWAYS exist. We can do things to minimize it,but it will always exist. In reference to any type of gun control, I think that we all do have the right to own guns if we choose to do so. Restricting guns to those who lawfully purchase them will have VERY little effect on gun violence. Last time I checked the majority of criminials DO NOT purchase their guns legally anyway. The increase in school shootings in particular, is purely based on the psychological makeup of the individual shooters. It may be from abuse as a child,a chemical imbalance, or many other reasons. A well balanced individual or teenager that is emotionally healthy would not pick up a gun and kill people,regardless if there was a loaded gun sitting on their kitchen table. BTW I am also in favor of extensive backgroung checks and training for all gun owners. Dont misunderstand me here... I AM NOT in favor of "anyone" being able to own a gun. For those of us sane,intelligent responsible citizens, I have no problem with it. As for the religious aspects mentioned here,my family and I are not religious AT ALL. So I cant really speak to those.
Jenn
Jenn
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balataf
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Posted - 10/03/2006 : 8:05:53 PM
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Allnaturalwife said: "I AM NOT in favor of "anyone" being able to own a gun. For those of us sane,intelligent responsible citizens, I have no problem with it."
Based on long, sad historical experience, what is most objectionable is having the government keep gun ownership records. The very first Nazi law passed was gun registration.
If, like the Soviets, you sentence dissidents to mental hospitals, then the lines can very quickly get blurred.
This is a reasonable position when you examine what has really taken place in the formation of various undemocratic systems, lik,me Castro's Cuba or Mugabe's hideous Zimbabwe regime.
Who determines who is a "responsible citizen."
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Edited by - balataf on 10/03/2006 8:11:47 PM |
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balataf
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/03/2006 : 11:28:27 PM
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In the time since my last post, I have seen more information on the murderer. He would have passed easily, with no problem or blemish on his record as a "responsible citizen," for buying a weapon.
Unfortunately, so would quite a few of the mass-murderers who cracked up and made it into the headlines, like Charles Whitman. I don't have any good answer to give you.
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runrdad
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Posted - 10/04/2006 : 09:07:31 AM
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Murder has been with us for a long time. From the first murder in the bible it is about wanting something you can't have. Can we control it? Can we stop it? Stopping it would be impossible without everyone in the world giving up all liberties. But that may not stop it and I like my liberties. We can control it in some ways by making the punishment for committing it fit the crime. If you knowingly and willingly kill someone then you should be put to death. If it is accidental then prison. Age should have nothing to do with it. We have become to forgiving, opened to many loopholes when it comes to murder. A person who plans and willing goes out to kill another person/persons should meet the same faith.
Sorry to get on this soap box but seeing such senseless killings sets me off.
I've been to hell but didn't stay long enough to talk to the devil.
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pilot
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Posted - 10/04/2006 : 09:17:02 AM
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There are two problems here that deserve separation.
First, tinkering with the Constitution is something that must not be taken lightly and (almost) never should be discussed in the context of a single event. Whether one is 'in favor of' or 'opposed to' gun ownership, the Constitution is not the framework in which to consider the question.
Second, it seems to me that we are failing to cope with a far deeper problem, namely school violence. Moreso than churches, most of us were raised to believe that schools represented a safe haven for our children, our teachers and by extension values we cherish. Schools are the place where the Constitution is taught, where children are encouraged to question and so on. When I was growing up, 'school violence' meant a tussle on the playground, which was followed by a discussion that included parents and the principal. Today, there are multiple examples of student-on-student; student-on-teacher; teacher-on-student and now stranger-on-student lethal acts. The cases all seem to include remote and often senseless 'hurts' and what are perceived to be easy and defenseless targets.
Lethal school violence is unfortunately not new. My first awareness of this terrifying event dates back to Aug, 1966 when a man named Charles Whitman ascended the now infamous "Texas Tower" at UT Austin, killing 16 and wounding 31. I was 11 years old, and never looked at school the same way again. He too seemed pretty normal on the outside but retrospectively was clearly filled with rage.
As a society, we need to find a way to identify and de-fuse (not diffuse, literally de-fuse) the rage that propels members of our species to commit such horrific acts. That will take much more than an amendment to law. It will take the commitment of all.
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Digital_Cowboy
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Posted - 10/04/2006 : 7:02:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HG8Harrier
It makes me sad to be an American when I read this:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15105305/?GT1=8618
I don't like getting into politics, but this is just shameful. The greatest thing America had going for it was freedom from religious persecution. In today's world, the Amish have been one of the few religions to have been largely unimpacted by the outside world. Now the problems of the rest of the country have been forced right onto their doorstep and ruined the lives of hundreds, if not thousands, in the community with the passing of these six young women.
Damn our second amendment.
It should read:
A mandate to keep your arms bare of any firearms, and a right to keep a bare ass.
Even if you're not religious, pray for Lancaster County.
I'm not, and I am.
HG8Harrier,
IF you really read the article that you linked to you would have read that the person who did the shooting claimed that he was “righting a wrong” from years ago. There was nothing in the article to indicate that he was targeting the Amish because of their beliefs, and that it appeared that he had some kind of grudge against women/girls. And NOT the Amish themselves.
Also it was suggested in the article that his shooting might have been motivated in part because of the death of his daughter just after she was born.
Herman
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Edited by - Digital_Cowboy on 10/04/2006 8:05:29 PM |
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balataf
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/04/2006 : 7:20:19 PM
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Pilot added to my mention of Charles Whitman. His case, a model citizen, and ex-Eagle Scout, who suddenly went crazy, is illustrative.
He had not shown any visible disqualification for responsible ownership of guns.
After he was shot the autopsy showed an egg-sized tumor eating away at his brain.
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Country: USA
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HG8Harrier
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/04/2006 : 7:27:12 PM
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Herman,
The Bart Township, Lancaster County, PA killings were senseless. They were tragic and I think Pilot is correct to say that we need to find a way of stopping school violence. Now, may I plead with the rest of the forum to stop beating a dead horse?
On a lighter note: are there any accredited nudist or naturalist schools?
On a more serious note: We're talking about nudism here... and the passing of some unfortunate souls... if it gets into more debate over gun control, and if a Moderator is watching, please close this thread down!
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/04/2006 : 8:03:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HG8Harrier
Herman,
The Bart Township, Lancaster County, PA killings were senseless. They were tragic and I think Pilot is correct to say that we need to find a way of stopping school violence. Now, may I plead with the rest of the forum to stop beating a dead horse?
On a lighter note: are there any accredited nudist or naturalist schools?
On a more serious note: We're talking about nudism here... and the passing of some unfortunate souls... if it gets into more debate over gun control, and if a Moderator is watching, please close this thread down!
HG8Harrier,
I think that we all agree that they were senseless killings. In your initial and subsequent posts you suggested that it happened because of the “easy” avability of guns (which as has been pointed out by others there are hundreds/thousands of ways for a person to get a gun either legally or illegally in this country) or that religion might played a role in this case. If I misunderstood what you were trying to say I apologize.
The sad thing is that regardless of what the law(s) may be if someone wants to harm someone else bad enough they will find away. i.e. you take away one type of weapon and another will just fill it’s vacuum, and ANYTHING can be used as/turned into a weapon. From a baseball bat, to a baseball, to a tire iron to a car.
The sad thing is that there is nowhere in the world that is 100% safe from crime of any sort.
Herman
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Why we should rethink the 2nd Amendment
