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 Gunnison's Beach, New Jersey
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KM
Forum Member

Posted - 06/01/2010 :  5:45:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
EXACTLY Celticbhoy. Thanks for backing me up here! My real problem with the old "if you don't want your photograph taken being nude on the beach, don't go to a nude beach" line is that that's EXACTLY what most people are going to do! And then eventually, nude beaches die. Or at least, as others here have suggested, become places full of nothing but single males, as everyone else will have essentially been chased off. Which, one more time, goes back to why you see so many single men. Perhaps many of their wives/girlfriends just took the "don't go to a nude beach" option!

Also, I don't understand how naturism can preach about how it's so positive for women, not about voyeurism/exhibitionism, based on self-respect and respect for others, blah, blah, blah, and then basically state that if you go to a nude beach, you better be prepared to be used as (to be quite blunt) masturbation material for men around the world! I hope you all see a problem with that.

I'll PM you that link in a minute.



Edited by - KM on 06/01/2010 5:46:18 PM

Country: | Posts: 43 Go to Top of Page

magicalyak
New Member

Posted - 06/01/2010 :  7:43:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is gunnison worth a 2 hour drive for a weekday visit? Illbe visiting my parents in late July. I was thinking of going with my wife. We've only been to nude beaches overseas.


Country: USA | Posts: 3 Go to Top of Page

Balto Bob
$ Supporter


Posted - 06/01/2010 :  8:59:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Balto Bob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Gunnison is less crowded durring the week. I'llbe there next week (Wed, Thurs).


Bob
Have a nice NUDE day !!

www.ipernity.com/doc/elvertbarnes/5172004/
www.flickr.com/photos/perspective/2560521247/



Country: USA | Posts: 821 Go to Top of Page

magicalyak
New Member

Posted - 06/02/2010 :  6:07:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
By less crowded do you mean well be one of the only nude people there or do you mean just less people? Also does that mean parking won't be an issue?


Country: USA | Posts: 3 Go to Top of Page

Balto Bob
$ Supporter


Posted - 06/02/2010 :  7:20:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Balto Bob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The parking lot will be half empty and almost everyone wll be nude.


Bob
Have a nice NUDE day !!

www.ipernity.com/doc/elvertbarnes/5172004/
www.flickr.com/photos/perspective/2560521247/



Country: USA | Posts: 821 Go to Top of Page

Balto Bob
$ Supporter


Posted - 06/02/2010 :  8:25:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Balto Bob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm going to try AGAIN to explain this again.
Gunnison is part of the Gateway National Seashore. Run by the National Park Service www.nps.gov/gate part of the US dept of Interior. The same woefully under funded agency that also regulates coal mines and oil drilling. At Sandy Hook, NJ they have beaches for fishing (Lot F) and a beach where you MAY go nude. This is still a public beach!! Under the US Constitution someone may document what happens on this PUBLICLY funded beach. I'm not happy about this, except it might discourage a few of the perverts. It seems someone is selling videos of people on Nude beaches. I'm NOT happy about that either but, I don't think we can stop it. When you go to a public restroom, you have what the law calls "a reasonable expectation of privacy" you don't have that on a beach. Not at Gunnison or Haulover or anywhere else in the world. This is why MOST people join a club. Thanks to the internet and TMZ, etc privacy is pretty much limited to what happens behind locked doors.
The link below will take you to a couple of photos from the WNBR. I'm quite proud of these photos. In fact the second one is one of the VERY few like it on flickr.com The same folks that are selling pics of Gunnison have pics from the WNBR. At least anyone riding a bike through a city (London, DC, etc) knows they will be on the internet.


Bob
Have a nice NUDE day !!

www.ipernity.com/doc/elvertbarnes/5172004/
www.flickr.com/photos/perspective/2560521247/



Country: USA | Posts: 821 Go to Top of Page

njyankee60
Forum Member


Posted - 06/02/2010 :  8:27:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The wife and I go almost every Wednesday because that is my day off. We have no issues with the parking or getting a spot on the beach.We try to get there about 9 and leave about 2. Last Wednesday, when we left, the lot was 3/4 full. Probably because it was close to 90 degrees, people were still filing onto the beach at 2pm.


Country: | Posts: 88 Go to Top of Page

KM
Forum Member

Posted - 06/02/2010 :  11:34:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Balto Bob

Under the US Constitution someone may document what happens on this PUBLICLY funded beach.


Oh really? Where exactly is that in the Constitution? Let's make something clear here: The phrase "no expectation of privacy in a public place" does NOT appear in the Constitution. I don't know where it originated, but it wasn't the Constitution. Furthermore, one could even argue that nowhere in the Constitution does it provide the Government with the ability to dictate to people what they can and can't have an expectation of. At any rate, to say that the Constitution allows this to take place is quite a loose interpretation of the Constitution.

quote:
Originally posted by Balto Bob

This is why MOST people join a club.


Actually, most people just don't bother with naturism at all. That's why we're an extreme minority.

quote:
Originally posted by Balto Bob

Not at Gunnison or Haulover or anywhere else in the world.


Well, while in truth it's irrelevant to a discussion about Gunnison Beach, to say "anywhere else in the world" is 100% false. In fact, in several countries, including France and I think Germany, as well as the Canadian province of Quebec, there is an expectation of privacy in ALL public places. That is, there is something called "right to one's own image." Now, that means that you CAN take someone's picture without permission, but you cannot publish it without permission. So, all I'm calling for is essentially the "right to one's own image" in the relatively miniscule piece of land that is Gunnison Beach.

quote:
Originally posted by Balto Bob

When you go to a public restroom, you have what the law calls "a reasonable expectation of privacy" you don't have that on a beach.


But a public restroom is a public place. Which means that if there is a reasonable expectation of privacy there, there CAN be an exception to the "no expectation of privacy in a public place" rule. The only reason there's a reasonable expectation of privacy in a public restroom is because the Government grants that right. Again, that's what I'm calling for here. To make Gunnison Beach another exception to that rule.

Lastly, if the "no expectation of privacy in a public place" thing is so ironclad, why did Google start blurring faces captured in their "street view" product (http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9943140-7.html)? And this is on streets, not nude beaches! I'm sure that if Google could get away with continuing to show people's faces on "street view" unblurred, they would be happy to do so. They started blurring people's faces because people obviously made it clear to them that they wouldn't stand for this -- that they DID expect privacy in those public places. As a result, the situation changed. Activism often works. Being passive does, too. In maintaining the status quo, that is.



Edited by - KM on 06/02/2010 11:41:35 PM

Country: | Posts: 43 Go to Top of Page

magicalyak
New Member

Posted - 06/03/2010 :  07:38:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nyyankee60. We'll go Wednesday but it won't be until late July. I'll post closer to the date.


Country: USA | Posts: 3 Go to Top of Page

Balto Bob
$ Supporter


Posted - 06/03/2010 :  11:52:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit Balto Bob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
KM, It is the First Amendment of the US Constitution. AKA, Freedom of the Press. Again, I'm not happy about this. Of course you could use that other amendment (the second) and blow his brains out. I won't shed any tears.


Bob
Have a nice NUDE day !!

www.ipernity.com/doc/elvertbarnes/5172004/
www.flickr.com/photos/perspective/2560521247/



Country: USA | Posts: 821 Go to Top of Page

KM
Forum Member

Posted - 06/03/2010 :  12:49:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Balto Bob

KM, It is the First Amendment of the US Constitution. AKA, Freedom of the Press.



Well, to call one of these voyeur photographers a member of the "Press" is an extremely broad interpretation of the word "Press." Maybe I should take some pictures at Gunnison and then apply for a White House press pass? I'm sure they'd be very amused. You say they are documenting "what happens" on the beach. I think one could argue that they aren't "documenting" anything. "What happens" on a nude beach isn't particularly complicated, and certainly doesn't require 1,000 pictures per summer to convey. What they are doing is simply taking pictures of peoples' bodies, and for the entertainment of others. They're the ultimate gawkers. And the people who pay to access such material are gawkers as well. It's just that they gawk at people from the comfort of their homes instead of on the beach. And most likely do you-know-what as they do. If anything, the kind of "Press" you can compare them to is the Paparazzi. But the Paparazzi, at least, for the most part only shoot pics of celebrities. Non-celebrities are supposed to have more protection than that. Anyway, if you want to take a such a loose interpretation of the First Amendment, one could also take a loose interpretation of the Fourth and Ninth Amendments and claim that there IS a right to privacy in the Bill of Rights. And since, as I said, the "no expectation" line doesn't appear in the Constitution, one could claim that that privacy right does NOT disappear in a public place, let alone as atypical a public place as a nude beach. By the way, and this is an extremely important point, the Founding Fathers made it quite clear that the Press was supposed to serve as a watchdog on the Government, not as an Orwellian "Big Brother" mechanism against ordinary citizens minding their own business. There's a huge difference.

Ultimately, this exchange between you and I reminds me of an exchange between Sun Microsystems co-founder Scott McNealy and technology journalist Stephen Manes. Here is the quote -- it's from this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_McNealy

"Stephen Manes quoted McNealy as saying (in 1999) "You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it."[5] Manes criticized the statement in his Full Disclosure column: "He's right on the facts, wrong on the attitude. ... Instead of 'getting over it', citizens need to demand clear rules on privacy, security, and confidentiality."

I think that you're mostly right on the facts, but let's just say that our attitudes strongly differ. Do you not agree that laws change over time? Of course they do. But they don't change by themselves. They change when people advocate that they change. NOTHING has even been accomplished by sitting back and doing nothing. And I guess that's the difference between you and I. You (for the most part) describe things the way they currently are. I try to inspire people to change things for the better.



Edited by - KM on 06/03/2010 7:21:13 PM

Country: | Posts: 43 Go to Top of Page

leesa123
Forum Member


Posted - 06/03/2010 :  8:56:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by KM

This also relates to the discussion about single males, and how they should bring a female companion. There's a pretty serious "which came first, the chicken of the egg" problem there. As a single male, this is an issue for me. How can a bring a woman I care about to essentially get fed to the wolves? If I did so, and she ended up getting hurt by it, I'd be beside myself. And I know for a fact that I'm not the only one who feels this way. So, you want to get more men bringing women to the beach? Start taking an aggressive stance toward the photography issue. "Public" beach or not.



Chicken or the egg? Are you serious? OK, by that logic we (females) should ALL stay home then - why should any of us risk our well-being? Why are your female friends any better than the rest of us?

But it is food for thought - maybe I will avoid Gunnison this summer in hopes that the vinnys will give up, and the construction will some day be finished - why not? Frankly the traffic and the trolls have really taken all the fun out of it. So maybe it is worth taking a step back this season - good advice, thank you....

By the way, as a result, your all-male nude beach will soon be a reality.

I believe the picture part of this thread was not about women/couples, which happens all too often, rather intentionally taking and posting very clear pictures of the single male trolls / lurkers who offend all with regard to no one. Let their friends and relatives see what they do with their free time.



Country: USA | Posts: 65 Go to Top of Page

KM
Forum Member

Posted - 06/03/2010 :  9:31:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by leesa123

Why are your female friends any better than the rest of us?


I never said they were. I'm just saying that I would feel guilty if I brought a woman I cared about to Gunnison and this happened to her, which discourages me from bringing one in the first place. If it happened to you, I wouldn't feel guilty. I'd certainly feel bad for you. But not guilty, as I'm not the one who asked you to come to Gunnison. What I'm calling for, of course, is a step to ensure that Gunnison is a comfortable place for ALL people.

As for all females staying home, well, I wouldn't blame you if you did, the way things are.

quote:
Originally posted by leesa123


I believe the picture part of this thread was not about women/couples, which happens all too often, rather intentionally taking and posting very clear pictures of the single male trolls / lurkers who offend all with regard to no one.



First of all, it's the women/couples who are in the photos, possibly you included. And THAT's what I'm calling for an end to. Second, so you're okay with photos being taken of you and put on the Internet, but not of people walking by and looking at you? Which means you'd rather be looked at by strangers around the world than people ON the beach? Doesn't make any sense.




Country: | Posts: 43 Go to Top of Page

waterboy
Forum Member

Posted - 06/03/2010 :  10:33:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Leesa if you stop going to Gunnison then the jerks are just one more step closer to winning!(rumors of lighthouse beach losing nude status) You don't want to have get on a plane every time you want to get naked do you?

Maybe we should set up a web site "the jerks of gunnison" take pictures of these guys and make fun of them!

This will be our third year at gunnison. Where are these trolls you guys speak of?
we only go on weekends or holidays. we also sit very close to the lifegaurds? I have not noticed anyone? Am I naive?
Lessa, maybe you fall into the rare category of being a "hottie" , kind of a curse at the nude beach. kind of like celebrities and the paparazzi.

Leesa, would going with another couple help? I'm not referring to me and my wife.(my wife would freak if I told her we were meeting someone)

Sean



Country: USA | Posts: 34 Go to Top of Page

Celticbhoy
Forum Member

Posted - 06/04/2010 :  01:04:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really can't argue with KM's points. He's right about the photos: if there are websites where you pay money to "look" at nude bodies...guess what: that's voyeurism. They're looking at it for pleasure purposes only. If my picture gets caught on there...fine. I can live with that. But if my S.O. is being photographed? Oh no...I will not tolerate it.

My problem - once again - is what these photos are being used for sexual, exploitative, and voyeur purposes only. They're not for art, they're not informative, etc. If you go to the forums, you'll see what I'm talking about. Why do I have to pay to go to this site? Oh...that's right.

They're not asking for permission. They're being voyeurs about it and - I must admit - noticing that there are over 1,000 pictures from Gunnison alone, scares the pants are me!

I still plan to go down with my girl. But I'll be bringing a damn fort of wind screens and will be avoiding the crazy weekends.



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