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nudeisntlewd
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 Posted - 10/20/2004 : 3:24:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark_497
Randy,
I am actually the one that used the statistic about the 12,000 arrests annually. I read it in a news story which was being done on breast feeding being legalized in some state. I did make a copy of it and if you are interested in seeing it I will try to figure out what I did with it and make it available to you.
Thanks,
Mark
Sorry ab out that mix-up. Trying to address too many thoughts about too many details at once. A fault of mine to be sure.
I would love to see that if possible. It just sounds so incredible to me. Just sounds like heresay. The kind of things that go around like rumors. But who knows. The truth can be surprizing.
Randy 
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StuFox
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 3:34:46 PM
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Dave
No I don't feel a woman laying out topless within her back yard should be arrested. If a neighbour finds it offensive, they have the option to take civil proceedings here and seek an injunction - as I would.
If a woman is on a little alcove type beach etc then, if no-one is bothered by her behaviour, that's fine. If people complain, then she should either cover up ot move somewhere else.
Bare breast in public should ONLY be decriminalized when it can be shown that the only an insignificant minority of people object to it. I don't believe that is the case.
We the willing who are led by the unknown must do the impossible for the ungrateful.
Stirbaby
I think you should go away, have a cup of coffee, and take a fresh look at what you are impugning here. Like most men, there are some things that I find sexy - even erotic - but, in my case, nudity definitely isn't one of them.
I live in the UK and I visit and own properties in two other European countries, including a Scandinavian country. Each country has terrestrial TV channels that routinely contain nudity in the form of documentaries, drama, movies and even soaps. Yes, even the good old BBC has some pretty hot stuff if you want to look for it. In each of my properties I have a widescreen TV set - and satellite TV. The main TV in my UK house has 40" screen and I can receive over 1,000 channels from across Europe - some I pay for and some I don't. I don't know if you have ever been to Europe, but, if I were so inclined, I could sit in my living room and watch a vast choice of soft or hard-core porn 24/7. Apart from that I have (obviously) the Internet on a broadband connection. If I were so inclined, I could go onto Google or another search engine, select "images", and type in a keyword such as "sex" or whatever and I have no doubt return thousands and thousands of graphic pictures of nudity.
I am not some kind of imbecile. If you are seriously suggesting that I would come to a nudist site to get a kick out of seeing a small, sideway shot of a naked couple on a beach, or some other picture of a nudist drinking wine in his living room then you must have a screw loose.
If you want to discuss and debate the issues then fine. But please stop being offensive.
Stu
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Stirbaby
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 4:44:01 PM
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Well Stu, who is being offensive now?
I question why a man would hate nudism and yet seek out a website called Nudist Resort, and i ask some fair questions, and you refuse to asnwer the questios and tell me i have a screw loose and i need to stop being offensive.
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nudeisntlewd
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 4:45:48 PM
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Stu,
No matter how much we can all agree to disagree, one thing is clear. You sound like a missionary. For whatever reason(s), you don't like to see exposed breasts. Fine. Nothing wrong with that. I don't argue that they need to be covered where it is not legal to show them. But just as you don't go where it is legal for them to be exposed, there is no logical reason to come to a place like this that is akin to a club where it is acceptable and then decry our practice.
The analogy of joining the Catholic Church and complaining that they have a Pope is an outstanding one. I have another. Coming here to complain about our pastime is like going to a pizza parlor and bitching that they sell pizza.
Your claim to enjoy a debate may be valid. But I think you've come to the wrong place for one. I don't presume to read your mind and know what your motivation is, but I doubt it is for debate. It appears to me more like you just want to come here to force your philosophy of guilt and shame on us. We are to hide what you don't want to see. There are plenty of unattractive people out in the world. But the law doesn't make them wear bags on their faces. My suggestion in either case: Don't look.
We are here to discuss and share information about our lifestyle, and even friends don't always agree. But while we don't always agree on the finer points, we are really not here to debate the basic issues that go hand in hand with what we like to do. Rather, we sometimes debate the implementation of what we do-nudity and how we can gain greater acceptance of our own bodies and greater acceptance from society. We talk about places to visit, things to do and things going on in our lives. The things that motivate friends to congregate.
We are not telling you to get naked, or even take your shirt off. Don't come here and tell us to put our shirts (and pants) on. I think if you use the right approach you would be welcomed here. Everyone is welcome here. But nobody enjoys guests in their house insulting their decorating style.
Randy
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Stirbaby
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 5:49:20 PM
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Randy, you are so eloquent!
I would take my hat off but it might offend Stu!
Stirbaby
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nudeisntlewd
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 6:47:30 PM
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Garsh, ya make me blush.  I'm gonna have to cover up mah butt cheeks.
Randy
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Edited by - nudeisntlewd on 10/20/2004 6:48:20 PM |
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StuFox
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 6:54:05 PM
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Hi Randy
"there is no logical reason to come to a place like this that is akin to a club where it is acceptable and then decry our practice."
Er...where have I decried your practice? I have said that nudists are, for the most part, considerate people. They only get nude in the presence of others who consent to seeing them nude. As I said, I have no quarrel with toplessness on a nudist beach.
"Coming here to complain about our pastime is like going to a pizza parlor and bitching that they sell pizza."
You have done it again! I have not 'bitched' about legitimate nudism. I support it! What's the problem?
"It appears to me more like you just want to come here to force your philosophy of guilt and shame on us."
But nudists have nothing to be ashamed of. Nudists, as I said, are generally considerate people. They have every right to enjoy their chosen form of recreation among other likeminded people. Whilst nudity is not my idea of fun, I have no "philosophy of guilt and shame" that I'm imposing on you. What gave you that idea?
"My suggestion in either case: Don't look."
Now where are we talking about? If you mean nudist beaches etc - fine. I don't want to have to see nudity, so I don't go to nudist beaches. I'm happy. Nudists are happy. If you are talking about other public places, places where I go and where I take my family, then telling me just not to look won't do at all. These places are part of my living space - my environment that I both pay for and am entitled to use and enjoy.
"we are really not here to debate the basic issues that go hand in hand with what we like to do. Rather, we sometimes debate the implementation of what we do-nudity and how we can gain greater acceptance of our own bodies and greater acceptance from society. We talk about places to visit, things to do and things going on in our lives. The things that motivate friends to congregate."
That's fine. If you just want to discuss this sort of thing with fellow nudists then I respect that. But some nudists wish to engage in dialogue with the wider world - to discuss where the boundaries lie. That's where I want to have my say.
Please, Randy, read what I say rather than assuming that I am coming from one or other anti-nudist position. I support considerate and segregated nudism. I am opposed to behaviour that is likely to cause offence. Is that unreasonable?
Stu
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dragonfly
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 6:55:49 PM
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Hey every one I wasn't trying to start a war here just wanted some feedback. There are some good arguments. I agree that the US contitution does not protect nudity but it does not prohibit it eirher. The probations were inacted by individual states or local goverments. It has been proven that these laws can be changed.
I personally do not like the argument that anti nudity laws are to protect the morals of sociaty. Nudity and morals are two differnt beast, I know a lot of people who would not think of going nude that have the morals of a dog in heat.
Stu as to your comment about a topless women in a secluded bay be happened upon by someone who objucts to this site either moving or covering up well she wss there first and they have the choise to move on or turn around. Why should they have more right to inforce their "rights" than the topless woman?
This is anouther topic whos rights are right.
Tom
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Cheri
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 7:34:16 PM
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Some good points are being made here. Another...if a woman is laying out in HER yard and you cannot see her from the public right of way, she should be able to do that without harrassment from ANYONE.
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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nudeisntlewd
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 7:34:25 PM
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For starters you again reference the tiny child. If you don't want to see 5 year old female chests, you have to be the most uptight person on earth. Therefore, if you can't deal with that, I'd say even though you say you come out in support of at least segregated nudity, you certainly appear to me to be against any exposure. I'd call that decrying our position on freedom of our own bodies.
You support nudity? Yes, you politely state that it's ok, you just don't seem to think we should have the right to practice it. Where is the support?
In some countries a female can't show her face or her hair. In America in 1900 she couldn't show her ankles. Hasn't American society evolved past these unreasonable fears? I think it has, but I'm not sure if you have.
I'm not going to get carpal tunnel syndrome continuing this as a phrase by phrase rebuttal any more. I haven't seen opposition to my position from others here, so I think all that needs to be said has been said.
Randy
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Datona
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 7:37:11 PM
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Stu,
Personally, I welcome you to this forum. I have been to a nude beach..and a couple nude swims. I have never been to a resort. I dont have a problem with what people do on their own property-but I think if you have a pool or hottub out there-one should use some discretion so as not to upset a neighbor. One day, I want to get a place with acreage-and a hottub. It will be private.
I think some of these guys are seeing shadows, where none exist.
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 8:31:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stirbaby
I think that when you join this forum, you are doing yourself a disservice because this forum is for NUDISTS!...
<snip>
...Were you looking for pictures of nude people to help you thru your masturbation?
Whoa now, Stirbaby. This site is for anyone following the posting rules to discuss nudism and nudist resorts.
Also, please be mindful of one of our posting rules, that personal abuse is not tolerated. You were getting pretty personal there with the masturbation stuff, and I don't see where the offensive references are needed.
This goes for anyone—if you are inclined to use alot of you's in your post, check yourself for abusive language.
StuFox is quite welcome to post his viewpoint, which is shared by many that read these pages, I'm sure. In fact, quote:
...But some nudists wish to engage in dialogue with the wider world - to discuss where the boundaries lie. That's where I want to have my say.
...says it pretty well. There are many in and outside of the nudist community that support the "a proper place for everything" philosophy, which is rather in opposition to the "nudity more often in public" school. I like Stu's reference to "where the boundaries lie." Hopefully, politicians will one day refer to these pages for a taste of sanity on the issue. Post on!
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james423
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Posted - 10/20/2004 : 10:32:28 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by StuFox
Dave
Bare breast in public should ONLY be decriminalized when it can be shown that the only an insignificant minority of people object to it. I don't believe that is the case.
Stu, I believe that if one were looking for an "insignificant minority" objecting, neither women nor minority races would have achieved the right to vote & you wouldn't even see the brief swimsuits we see today on beaches, let alone nude beaches. There is such a thing as tyranny of the majority & in some cases the government must protect the minority against such tyranny. Often this is how opinions eventually change -today you don't hear significant opposition to the right of women & minorities to vote (but before & even for a while after the government allowed them to do so there was quite a bit of opposition). In some places the government has already allowed women (as well as men) to appear bare breasted in public. The sky hasn't fallen & these places for the most part haven't become battlegrounds due to decriminalization of breasts. While our governments are representative democracies, they needn't always bow to the majority (After all, a significant majority may dislike discordant jazz but that's not a sufficient reason to ban it).
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bornnude
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Posted - 10/21/2004 : 06:44:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by StuFox
Bare breast in public should ONLY be decriminalized when it can be shown that the only an insignificant minority of people object to it. I don't believe that is the case.
We the willing who are led by the unknown must do the impossible for the ungrateful.
StuFox
I have got to disagree with this statement.... I see that you don't live in the USA so I will try and explain my position a little.
We lived for years with discrimination in this country based upon skin color. At least in some parts of the country, if we had waited until any sort of majority was in favor of treating better, we may still be in the same place because people basically just don't want to change.
The argument of the Top-Free advocates are that if a Male can be exempt from legal action for not wearing clothes, then any female should have the same rights under the law.
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Mark_497
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Posted - 10/21/2004 : 07:16:10 AM
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Hello Stu,
I'm going to make a reference here to peanut butter, some people like it some don't. The point being that even if 50% of the population disliked it that would not be sufficient reason to outlaw it. The same with breasts. Not liking something is not a reason to outlaw it.
A topless free society does not post a health risk to anybody. A topless free society would desensitize people to breasts being a sexual object. The only data that you have is that one group of people don't like it.
Show me why topfreedom for women would cause a real problem then we have something to debate.
Enquiring minds want to know
Mark
PS. I hate peanut butter but more power to those of you that want it.
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