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smendes
Forum Member

Posted - 02/11/2006 :  03:29:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
really Cathy ? ... you cant be serious...

nudism and sexuality ARE linked together inextricably.... it is nudists that are fooling themselves (and trying to fool the general public that there is no connection).

Generally it is women that cant understand the connection and advance these arguments.... and men go along with them for their own benefit.

If there is no connection between nudity and sex... how come a magazine like PLAYBOY... which is really just a nudist magazine of females.... is so successful.

PLAYBOY is so popular with the average male (of any age).... because generally speaking the sight of a naked female body gives some sexual excitement to the average male... whether there is arousal or not.

all this talk about arousal or the lack thereof only proves my point.

realistically speaking, the women dont want the men aroused in a nudist context.... and the men go along with that arrangement.... because men since the dawn of creation have been trying to please women... and they make the sacrifice in order to obtain the benefit.

It is not that I dont understand WHY nudists want so desperately to keep sex out of the nude equation..... but they are really wasting their time trying to convince John Q Public with illogical arguments... and it will ALWAYS be an issue... because...

nudity with no sexual connotation whatsoever.. is as unnatural as a wedding without a bride...

hence the need for rules about arousal to keep the MEN in line... and prevent the whole charade from collapsing.

Dont get me wrong.... I support nudity in any form... with or without "rules"... all I am doing here is a realistic assesment of the status quo.






Country: Barbados | Posts: 83 Go to Top of Page

bornnude
Forum Member


Posted - 02/11/2006 :  08:02:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by smendes
...If there is no connection between nudity and sex... how come a magazine like PLAYBOY... which is really just a nudist magazine of females.... is so successful.


There is the difference however. Playboy deals with nudity and pushes it out in a very sexual manner. Nudism is not about the sexualization of the nude body but simply the act of being unclothed.


quote:
Originally posted by smendes
realistically speaking, the women dont want the men aroused in a nudist context.... and the men go along with that arrangement.... because men since the dawn of creation have been trying to please women... and they make the sacrifice in order to obtain the benefit.


That is a pretty demeaning view of men! I would hope that most of us here are above that. If I read the statement right, you are reducing men to sex crazed animals.

quote:
Originally posted by smendes
nudity with no sexual connotation whatsoever.. is as unnatural as a wedding without a bride...



I find this statement somewhat disturbing. Prior to deciding that I enjoyed nudism/naturism, I was naked many times without sexual connotations while in the shower in locker rooms, etc.




Country: USA | Posts: 462 Go to Top of Page

smendes
Forum Member

Posted - 02/13/2006 :  02:16:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
in the shower and locker room no females are present (presumably) so I agree that it is non-sexual nudity (unless one is of the gay persuasion).

...and if one can truthfully state that the display of female genitalia is of no interst to one whatsover (and one is not gay) then I might believe such altruistic ideas on nudity.

but I know at least two business executives that fly out of the country to nudist venues to enjoy the display of female genitalia.... they have told me so themselves... it is not that they approach the women or that they behave in an unacceptable manner for they are nice well-behaved nudists.... but they simply enjoy the display and that is why they go.

in fact the most powerful reason for social nudity is the desire to see others naked.... otherwise you could simply stay at home.




Country: Barbados | Posts: 83 Go to Top of Page

bornnude
Forum Member


Posted - 02/13/2006 :  08:01:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by smendes

in the shower and locker room no females are present (presumably) so I agree that it is non-sexual nudity (unless one is of the gay persuasion).


Most but not all the locker rooms I have been in. I spent some time in Germany. The hotel there had a sauna with showers in the open. It wasn't uncommon to see both genders dressing or undressing outside the sauna.

quote:
Originally posted by smendes

...and if one can truthfully state that the display of female genitalia is of no interst to one whatsover (and one is not gay) then I might believe such altruistic ideas on nudity.


I am not gay and watching the opposite sex is NOT my primary motifiation. My last venture to the nude beach, almost nobody was around, of those that were 90% were men. I enjoyed the surf and the sun without the impeidement of clothing.

quote:
Originally posted by smendes

but I know at least two business executives that fly out of the country to nudist venues to enjoy the display of female genitalia.... they have told me so themselves... it is not that they approach the women or that they behave in an unacceptable manner for they are nice well-behaved nudists.... but they simply enjoy the display and that is why they go.


I do not doubt that there are people out there that do what you describe. I can't tell you what everyones motives for participating are.

One quick note.... Unless I am corrected by women here, I don't believe breasts are considered genitals.

quote:
Originally posted by smendes

in fact the most powerful reason for social nudity is the desire to see others naked.... otherwise you could simply stay at home.


I do stay home naked quite often. I find, however, my yard is not well enough sheilded and is way too close to the neighbors so the only way I get to erase tan lines or relax in the sun is to go elsewhere.




Country: USA | Posts: 462 Go to Top of Page

TallTim
Forum Member

Posted - 02/13/2006 :  09:00:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ah, the tar-pits! I've read most of the thread and understand the positions put forth. But when you get right down to it, most of us live this lifestyle for comfort.
I was taught that the best thing you can do is make sure the others around you are comfortable; this applies to all areas of our lives. Seems to me that this is a rights vs.responsiblities issue. We all have the right to be comfortable, but we also have the responsiblity to not make others uncomfortable. I guess we just have to be reasonable people, not too sensitive, not to uncaring.

Anyway, thats my two cents into the pit.

BTW-In my state, female breasts are not considered genitalial

Tim



Country: USA | Posts: 165 Go to Top of Page

jherazob
Forum Member

Posted - 02/13/2006 :  09:42:23 AM  Show Profile  Send jherazob a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Smendes, i disagree with you with your idea that naturism is sexual in nature. Naturism is about acceptance, about health, about openness and about not wanting sand scraping your marbles

I think that what you're refering to is about admiring the female body, more or less like that Domai guy does. I agree with that, being an admirer of the female beauty myself, but that's not sexual in nature, it's just a consequence of them being a sizeable part of the beauty of creation, the same kind of appreciation you have towards a beautiful sunset, a great work of art or stuff like that. The sexual part does not even need that beauty.

But we're veering off-topic, that one in particular deserves it's own 43-page-long thread

So, IMHO the erection thing is hugely overblown (no, no pun intended althought i was tempted ), and i think it's mostly USA-born prudishness remaining even in naturists.

Cheri: yes, burping and farting are natural too, but they're different: with farting there's a hygiene and sanitation issue involved (not just the smell but also the bacteria), and burping is expected in the table in some places of the world, being actually rude to not do it, making it a purely social convention. The only difference with an erection is psychological and social since unless the person is very aroused and starts leaking preejaculatory fluid (highly unlikely to spontaneously happen in a nudist environment IMHO) the penis is pretty much exactly the same thing as the flaccid one except for a slight shape change. All that fear i truly believe is a phantom, an illusion created by overanxious people because of bad past experiences.

And i do believe you all underestimate people's capacity from feeling other people's intentions, which are the main point to have in mind here. Call it gut-feeling, women's intuition, "creepy vibes" or whatever, it's my opinion that you can rely much more in that than in sweeping overgeneralizations.

I do realize there's a survival issue here while living in ultraprude and supersexified USA and that you don't want your beaches taken away, but overreacting only leads to infighting and to diminishing the unity and power of the group, which i truly believe has the same net effect.

---------------------------------------
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert Heinlein



Country: Colombia | Posts: 27 Go to Top of Page

jherazob
Forum Member

Posted - 02/13/2006 :  09:56:50 AM  Show Profile  Send jherazob a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Just remembered, why didn't i remember when i was writing the first message? oh well...

http://www.clothesfree.com/bodyacceptance.html
This guy does a very good job of summarizing the point, and emphasizes the issue of youngsters which is also essencial for the survival of naturism since without young people any group is doomed, and naturism being actually actively attacked by those in power needs every bit of advantage it can get.

---------------------------------------
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert Heinlein



Country: Colombia | Posts: 27 Go to Top of Page

GeeWilly
Forum Member

Posted - 02/13/2006 :  12:20:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Smendes, your candid venture into honesty reveals more about you than it does about others, wouldn't you admit? If nudism is just sexuality, then your participation is what? Couldn't you just walk fully clothed along a clothing-optional beach? Does it mean you are really a closet exhibitionist?

From the time of the Renaissance, in particular, the appreciation of the human form has been expressed in art. So that is a given. (But the human male form with an erection has been considered lewdity?) But isn't the freedom, in all of its psychological aspects, the true substance underlying social nudity? Isn't that why you can go to a clothing-optional venue that is 90% male and still enjoy your natural state?



Country: USA | Posts: 249 Go to Top of Page

CathyK
Forum Member


Posted - 02/13/2006 :  7:47:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was very reluctant to enter the world of social nudism because I could not understand how in the world a man could look at a nude woman in a non-sexual way. But in the relatively short time I have been in nude social settings with other men and women, I have never noticed a man looking at me in a sexual way, making any kind of sexual comments, getting an erection, or in any other way making me feel uncomfortable. Granted, I don't know what is going on in the deep recesses of anyone's mind. I only know what I see on the surface. But on the surface, I have seen more men try to look down my blouse, up my skirt, stare at my breasts, and generally "check me out" while I am fully clothed, than look at me that way when I am totally nude. And I am by no stretch of the imagination a Playboy model!
I believe that to the uninformed, the make believers, pretenders, wannabees, and such, us nudists are a curiosity and somewhat of a freak show since they look at us from a distance, through distorted lenses and can't understand how we exist the way we do. They think we have secret get-tigethers, behind the scenes, of sexual orgies. Heck, isn't that what naked people are supposed to do when they get togeher in a group? If they only knew the truth, they wouldn't be making these type of comments.
One more thing...I really don't intend to debate this topic any further. There is no way I am going to try and convince you what is the truth for me and the multitude of us believers. A huge part of me believes that you only want to continue arguing he point only to perpetuate your own fantasy anyway. So this is the last I have to say on this topic.

Cathy



Country: | Posts: 128 Go to Top of Page

smendes
Forum Member

Posted - 02/13/2006 :  7:58:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well you are wrong about me

I like nudism anytime... not just for sex... nobody can have sex all the time.

I am not a closet anything.... my life is an open book... type in "Stephen Mendes" in any search engine and see what you find.

I am not an exhibionist... I have no problem keeping on my clothes when everybody else around me is nude.... in fact, this happens quite frequently when I am photographing nude models and I only take off my clothes when I become aware that the person(s) I am photographing would be more comfortable with me in a nude state.

I am a rebel and I dont care for rules and regulations... I have as little as possible to do with civilised society.... I put up with it, for business reasons, just long enough to get the job done and get my money.

I wont be going to nudist resorts.... in fact, when I travel (which is very rarely) I stay in my hotel room and have room service bring up my meals... that way I dont have to interact with anybody.

I spend my free time in the jungle either alone or in the company of rastas (bush people).

I will soon stop posting on this forum... because there will be nothing more for me to say.



Country: Barbados | Posts: 83 Go to Top of Page

jherazob
Forum Member

Posted - 02/13/2006 :  11:31:18 PM  Show Profile  Send jherazob a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
smendes, i kinda see your point, but cutting yourself off from others is not something good, you lose oportunities for growth and experience. It also teaches you how to deal with people. Also, one of the best parts of naturism is the social aspect.

What i'm saying is: don't go away, you'll miss loads of fun

---------------------------------------
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert Heinlein



Country: Colombia | Posts: 27 Go to Top of Page

GeeWilly
Forum Member

Posted - 02/14/2006 :  1:30:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh c'mon Smendes, surely you have much more to say. Your frankness, alone, is refreshing to readers.

OK, so we disagree on your "most powerful reason for social nudity," that does not mean that either of us is "wrong." And if I (and maybe others too) are "wrong" about you, so what?! Wouldn't be the first time.

It does not take too long before "seeing others naked" wears off as a reason for being nude, don't you concur? The pleasantness associated with the human form is always present. So what then would be the next motivation?



Country: USA | Posts: 249 Go to Top of Page

Admin
Forum Admin


Posted - 02/14/2006 :  6:02:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by smendes

I am a rebel and I dont care for rules and regulations... I have as little as possible to do with civilised society... I spend my free time in the jungle either alone or in the company of rastas (bush people).
I hope you folks don't mind that I've not killed this thread. It will probably get into the hundreds of pages before we're done. I appreciate everyone's civility when basic beliefs are questioned. Some of you folks have a great ability to put complex feelings and values into readable sentences. This thread is just the place on the net where those that believe (truly believe not just trolling) that sexuality is always a part of nudism can interact with those that don't. Many people seem to honestly believe just that—sex equals nudity equals sex. Where else on the Internet is there a deep and respectful dialogue between that group and the traditional nudists?

Stephen, don't give up your voice, and I appreciate that you've remained nice to everybody, and even shown some give and take. I've quoted the above to illustrate that you are enjoying what none of the rest of us ever can, an existence without worry of government repercussions. You have unlimited private beaches, while ours are limited and in danger of distinction depending solely on public perception.

Speaking of which, why do so few people show the connection between visible erections and government interference with nudists? It seems to me that with the government out of the equation, the custom might be entirely different.

I might also add that with more brazen or immodest behavior being allowed at public beaches, significantly less females and families would feel comfortable attending, don't you agree?



Country: USA | Posts: 1695 Go to Top of Page

aztroboy
New Member

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  12:17:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We are part of this because we value natures greatest gift to us -our bodies, every part of our bodies. Erections are natural and do NOT mean you have to stick it in someone, they happen natually and are normal. I will never let my son feel bad about his body or any part of his body, anyone who feels they can make someone feel badly about his/her bodys natural action is a freak and needs to stay away from young people. As a teacher I feel young people today need more people telling them that they are ok and what they feel is normal. Confidence is so lacking in todays young people that it's scary. Telling them thier bodies natural functions are bad doesn't help. I read the article at http://www.clothesfree.com/bodyacceptance.html and was horrified by the stories about young people being told they are bad because they got erections, no wonder kids today are so messed up today. Anyway this forum rocks.


Country: USA | Posts: 3 Go to Top of Page

Bilby
Forum Member


Posted - 02/15/2006 :  06:08:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There seem to be two factions here.
One faction says that erections are normal and natural so what's the problem? The other side says that erections are simply not appropriate in a social setting.

While the head and the heart understand the difference between sensuality and sexuality, let's be honest, the penis does not. And since nudism can be a sensual experience, erections will sometimes happen. I think most nudists understand that an unwanted erection is not necessarily lewd behaviour.

However, I think most nudists are aware of the possibility that visible erection can bring nudism into disrepute, and that wouldn't help anyone. To first timers, te sight of men with exposed erections would not be a welcoming of comforting sight.

So I think the best thing to say is at they are natural, they do happen, it's nothing to be ashamed of, but be discrete about it.



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