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Posted - 08/02/2005 :  10:33:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
AANR promotes law change that imprisons non-AANR nudists in Maryland

Most of us expect AANR to follow its mission statement, namely, to protect nude recreation and nude living in the Americas. Sadly, when the American Association for Nude Recreation gets an opportunity to insert protecting language in this anti-nudity bill, it is only those paying AANR that benefit, and all other nudist-friendly businesses in Maryland can enjoy 6 months imprisonment and a $500 fine for allowing nudity without AANR's blessing. Read it yourself, and see if you don't agree with Kevin's commentary in the next message following. Comments are most welcome. Is this what you expected from AANR?

Please participate in the poll by clicking This Link.

Listen along, starting at 1:22:15, to the Maryland Senate, discussing language provided by AANR
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Transcription by Kevin admin@nudist-resorts.org

1:22:15
Senate Bill 224, Senator Exum and others, "Municipal Corporations - Regulation of Nudity and Sexual Displays", favorable with 2 amendments.

Ok, this is a Senate Bill. Chair recognizes distinguished lady Senator from Allegany County.

Um, I am, um presenting this bill.

Floor leader, you may proceed.

Ok?

Yes, ma'am.

Ok. As amended this bill, uh authorizes the legislative bodies of a municipal corporation to adopt ordinances for the licensing control location and maintenance of a business that allows on its premises an activity of nudity. This is enabling legislation. Uh, we uh, it has uh two uh amendments. The first amendment is technical, and the second amendment increases the penalties and exemptions um, for events uh, chartered by the A.A.N.R. I move favor— ask you for a favorable on the amendments and uh, accept a favorable on the committee report.

On the amendments, Senator.

Thank you very much. Mr President, members of the— of the Senate. Uh, this bill came in as a municipal association bill, to as enabling legislation to allow them to promolgate rules and regulations or laws or whatever dealing with nudi— what there were nudity clubs and what-have-you that would be in a municipality. This amendment, I would oppose this amendment and ask the ah ruh ... first of all, I'd like to make a motion to oppose this amendment. I'd like to ask the chairman are these amendments separable?

Uh-?

The chairman here, are these amendments separable?

It's all one amendment.

It's all one amendment. Ok, thank you. I— I would oppose the amendment, ask the body to oppose this amendment, to strip these am— not adopt these amendments because they do not deal with the bill. The— the problem is this is an enabling legislation and we ought to let, if there is a problem, them to go to whatever municipality that they might be located in, and argue their case before the municipality, and not put prohibitions...

Senator, why don't you explain how the amendments affected your bill? What do the amendments do that affect your intent of your bill?

Well, it prohibits uh, the municipalities from making laws dealing with these nudidist clubs.

Ah, I disagree with that. Um, the main part of the amendment is to increase the penalties to five hundred dollars.

It said in the...

...and six months imprisonment.

It says in section (c) "an ordinance adopted under this section may not apply to any event charted by the American Association for Nude Recreation."

That's to exempt nudist camps I think.

That's correct! Fo— that's correct. For it's my understanding there are no nudist camps in municipalities, is what I've been told.

No, wh...

So let's, let's let's yield to the ...

These are...

The floor leader go ahead...

What we are talking about are highly regulated national organization of family nudist camps. Um, or, um, nudist ah facilities, and the bill is to help them to make sure that they are not, um pushed out. [Off-mic comment] ...Believe me I have two in my district and nobody even knows they're there!

[Many people laughing]

They told me!

They voted Republican last time, I know that! Ha ha ha ha....

[Laughter lingers]

I ask you to resist this uh, motion for the uh amendment, the amendment is uh, is fine, it does not, it does not uh impinge upon the, what the bill intended to do, it's a very good bill because of the fact that it, um, it helps the uh municipalities and um, [off-mic comment] [beginning to laugh] helps the municipalities and um, and controlling the uh, go-go clubs and things like that that are going on right now.

And let's, the distinguished lady's here from Harford <inaudible>... go ahead.

Thank you Mr President. Would the floor leader yield?

Yes.

So, I know that, and I know only because, um, [many people laughing again] I too, was told! Um, too much information. Um, we have one in, in Harford County too. And, nobody, I mean they— they purposely stay to themselves. They have high fences. They— they're not interested in bothering anybody.

And they're quite different from the people that are trying to do this for profit, um, totally different.

No, I mean I think there's several websites that you can go on, where they're families.

They are—they're family clubs.

[Off-mic comment]

Yes, that's true.

And they want to stay to themselves, they don't want anybody to wander upon their s—, their campground or whatever it is. They're totally protective of that, they don't want to offend anybody, and they really don't want you to, eh, they do not want people to know where they are, and um, they make it almost im—, very hard for you to even figure out what it is they are.

Yeah, I...I would urge it, a green vote...

It's very difficult to get in the fences, uh there's, they're locked.

Thank you.

Gentleman from Charles County.

...<inaudible> would the floor leader yield?

Sure!

You know, I , before I vote on these amendments, for 'em or against, and I want to know the bare facts here! [Laughter] I look at the exemption and it's for the, it's for the "American Association for Nude Recreation". Can you describe for me what "nude recreation" is? I have no idea, of how far it goes!

Sir, I— I have no idea.

I know, I know what recreation means to me! He he. [Light laughter] Do you know what...?

Sir, I have no—idea—either.

So this would... so we're going to pass something that we have no idea what "nude recreation" entails?

Well... uh, do you really want to know?

I mean uh, I mean... <snicker>

Uh, what, I'm sorry, what were you...?

No, no, you can scratch that last one. Thank you very much.

Questions on the amendments. On the amendments. The Senator from, from Bowie.

Thank you Mr President, um...

Prince George's County.

I'd like to support the um, motion by my colleague from Prince George's County to "strip" this amendment. [Laugher all around] Ha ha, ha ha ha ha. Thank you.

The Senator from the Capitol city of Annapolis.

Actually, the uh, Mr President, I have a real question. Um, would the floor leader yield, please?

Yes.

Um, I'm just, I'm just curious. Uh, I know that Anne Arundel County has two facilities that might fall under this category, and I'm just curious what effect the bill and this amendment will have on what's going on within Anne Arundel County. Cause in the, cause the delegation hadn't had a chance to really look at this, and what the effect might be.

The— the organization, um, was concerned because when this bill—if the bill passed without the amendment—that they would not be able to, um, rent out a facility and use it for um, a winter event. In— in a way that it would, that it would be extremely discreet. It would— it would not allow them to do that. And that was the reason for the amendment.

So— so, in other words, if I'm understanding what you're saying— this um, entity, Sunny Acres or whatever they call themselves, um, it's wintertime, um, and they want to have an event some place indoors...

A private event...

A private event, indoors...

Indoors.

...this would allow them to go like to the Mariott rent the ballroom? Uh, I mean...?

Uh, only if the place was completely shut away from, um, so that no one could wander in.

So, but essentially this— this— this opens, uh, a pretty wide door, I mean, to the... for these kinds of events to go outside of their normal compound. Now I know their compound's pretty well enclosed and secluded but, the— the net effect of this will mean they can leave that compound to have events in some other location, um, wherever. Is that what this does?

Y-yes.

We're talking about an organization though, that is a nationally recognized organization, um, we're not talking about, uh, just any group.

Well I understand that but, this would seem to have some significant impact, I mean the fact that now this organization, entity, whatever you want to call it, could then, um, go outside their compound, where now they're pretty well, um, forced to confine their activities to that, to that site, and it would seem that what we're doing here with this amendment is uh, is opening up the number of venues that would, that would be available to them. I'm not sure that's a good idea.

Are you asking a question or are you speaking to the bill?

Well, yeah, I'm uh, I guess the question you answered was it does open up, uh any number of venues provided they can be secured. Um, but they don't have ...

Provided it would be secure. Only...

But they don't have to be inside the compound that, that, would, that they own. Ok, thank you.

The distinguished lady Senator from Prince George's has now spoken on the bill.

Thank you Mr President. I, too, want to join um, my colleagues from Prince George's County in supporting um, uh the Senator from Prince George's County District 24 in stripping the amendment because, really um, what the effect of those amendments will do is, um provide unintended consequences, uh, of allowing fly-by-night, uh, strip clubs to come into municipalities and open up for events. The American Association for Nude Recreation, um, does appear to be a credible, uh, organization, and while there may be limited locations at this point in time, um, the legislation will enable individuals, according to their website, who want to expand club locations, or expand opportunities for events, to simply do so by joining the organization. Joining the organization means paying a membership fee. And then, uh, uh, coordinating with the organization to then conduct an event. So I think this will have unintended consequences that we who have municipalities in our counties, and in our districts, have fought long and hard to eliminate, uh, the dissatisfaction of having, ah, organizations or businesses that do conduct nude and sexual display activities. Thank you.

Thank you. Has anyone else who has not spoken on this issue wish to speak?

Senator from Cal Frederick.

Thank you Mr President. Thank you. Ladies and gentleman I want you to, if you can look at the, the reprint on the computer as to how this reads with the amendment, the original language says that the penalty is twenty five dollars. If someone should violate this ordinance, only twenty five dollars. The amendment states that they are subject to imprisonment, not to exceed six months, and a fine of not less than five hundred dollars. So, the amendment attempts to corral, as the lady from Prince George's said, identify a legitimate organization, um, something that you know I gather is, is ... I don't know it's... they've been doing it for years, and apparently there's some, um, conclaves or some operations in Anne Arundel County , I guess, Harford County, um, and obviously they've kept their locations a successful secret. Uh, but apparently it's a national organization that's recognized. And, um, the amendment takes the penalty from twenty five dollars, if an organization violates the rule, it frankly allows imprisonment and it allows a five hundred dollar fine. You know if you do against the amendment, then what point is it to have a tiger in this form of the bill, with no teeth? Twenty five dollars to an organization that might be running some type of club that you don't want in your community, is absolutely worthless. It's absolutely worthless. I think based on the way that we went the other day with a bill we had, that's minimum wage for three employees. So, twenty five dollars fine is what you'll end up with if you pass the bill without the amendment. It needs the teeth of imprisonment and a five hundred dollar fine. So I urge that you support the amendment.

Is there anyone who has not spoke on this issue that wishes to be heard?

Senator from College Park, East George's County.

Thank you very much. You know, this uh bill as it first came in was the top legislative priority of a group in Prince George's County. The reason I know about this is this organization has been getting together its uh, the uh, municipal association, Prince George's County Municipal Association. The President of that organization happens to be a Laurel city council member in my district. Uh, he's sitting there, he's now the president, and this was, I commend them for getting everything together. And the ideas, and you can hear it from the other folks in Prince George's County, we've been talking about this since the summertime, and this originally came in as just an opportunity for them to be able to regulate these, these uh, displays of nudity in the district. We thought we were all very supportive of it, we wanted to continue to do it, and we see these amendments as, as sort of clouding everybody's view of this bill. Uh, I just talked to my good friend Senator from uh, my neighboring district, and he said that the uh, the organization is fine with the increased penalties, they don't have any problem with that, moving from twenty five to five hundred dollars. But this other part, dealing with this, this organization just clouds it all. And I, you know I think that, uh, we have to really consider taking this amendment off. And I would ah, support taking that amendment off.

Ok. A green vote will adopt the amendments, <ahem> a red vote will reject them. Clerk will call the role.

Mr President? <tone sounds>

Has everyone recorded the vote?

Mr President? ...President? Have you...?

Question on the committee amendments. The question is on the committee amendments.

Mr. President.

Senator from Prince George's...

Let me explain my vote. Uh, this amendment was offered in the House, and it was ah, defeated in the committee, ah. And, um, the unintended consequences we'd be happy on third reader to offer an amendment if you defeat this amendment to increase the fine, which we could put on on third reader.

Ok. Has everyone recorded the vote? Anyone wish to change their vote? And explained the vote, if not, the clerk—will take—the call.

Twenty affirmative, twenty-three in the negative, the Senator's amendment fails. The question is now the favored committee report, Senator. On the favored committee report, any discussion? All in favor aye, opposed no, the favored committee report is adopted. Further amendments, are there further amendments to the bill to the title? Hearing none, Senate Bill 224 is ordered. Print it for third reading.

1:38:22


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Posted - 08/02/2005 :  10:59:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Transcript Annotated with Comments
Listen along, starting at 1:22:15, to the Maryland Senate, discussing language provided by AANR
RealPlayer LISTEN


Transcription, Comments and Emphasis Added by Kevin admin@nudist-resorts.org

1:22:15
Senate Bill 224, Senator Exum and others, "Municipal Corporations - Regulation of Nudity and Sexual Displays", favorable with 2 amendments.

[Comment: This is a classic example of the type of legislation that gives nudism the most trouble. The goal is to educate legislators so they will insert protecting language for nudists, while still regulating adult-oriented nude dance clubs, the intended target of the bill.]

Ok, this is a Senate Bill. Chair recognizes distinguished lady Senator from Allegany County.

Um, I am, um presenting this bill.

Floor leader, you may proceed.

Ok?

Yes, ma'am.

Ok. As amended this bill, uh authorizes the legislative bodies of a municipal corporation to adopt ordinances for the licensing control location and maintenance of a business that allows on its premises an activity of nudity. This is enabling legislation. Uh, we uh, it has uh two uh amendments. The first amendment is technical, and the second amendment increases the penalties and exemptions um, for events uh, chartered by the A.A.N.R. I move favor— ask you for a favorable on the amendments and uh, accept a favorable on the committee report.

[Comment: It appears AANR presented changes to the second amendment that left the increased penalties and imprisonment in place for all nudists groups not paying AANR membership fees. This would seem to include any incorporated nudist club, resort or organization that allows nudity, with the business fined $500 and the officers (members?) imprisoned.]

On the amendments, Senator.

Thank you very much. Mr President, members of the— of the Senate. Uh, this bill came in as a municipal association bill, to as enabling legislation to allow them to promolgate rules and regulations or laws or whatever dealing with nudi— what there were nudity clubs and what-have-you that would be in a municipality. This amendment, I would oppose this amendment and ask the ah ruh ... first of all, I'd like to make a motion to oppose this amendment. I'd like to ask the chairman are these amendments separable?

Uh-?

The chairman here, are these amendments separable?

It's all one amendment.

It's all one amendment. Ok, thank you. I— I would oppose the amendment, ask the body to oppose this amendment, to strip these am— not adopt these amendments because they do not deal with the bill. The— the problem is this is an enabling legislation and we ought to let, if there is a problem, them to go to whatever municipality that they might be located in, and argue their case before the municipality, and not put prohibitions...

[Comment: This Senator was the author of the bill, which is why he is forbidden to even say the word "strip".]

Senator, why don't you explain how the amendments affected your bill? What do the amendments do that affect your intent of your bill?

Well, it prohibits uh, the municipalities from making laws dealing with these nudidist clubs.

Ah, I disagree with that. Um, the main part of the amendment is to increase the penalties to five hundred dollars.

It said in the...

...and six months imprisonment.

It says in section (c) "an ordinance adopted under this section may not apply to any event charted by the American Association for Nude Recreation."

[Comment: There is the smoking gun. Aren't you glad he bothered to read it into the record?]

That's to exempt nudist camps I think.

[Comment: Even the Senators expect the language to protect a broader group. The exact language means that only those nudists paying membership fees to AANR and attending its events would be exempted. All others can enjoy the increased fees of $500 and imprisonment, including organized beachgoers, nudist-friendly businesses, and any nudist club or event not chartered by AANR.]

That's correct! Fo— that's correct. For it's my understanding there are no nudist camps in municipalities, is what I've been told.

No, wh...

So let's, let's let's yield to the ...

These are...

The floor leader go ahead...

What we are talking about are highly regulated national organization of family nudist camps. Um, or, um, nudist ah facilities, and the bill is to help them to make sure that they are not, um pushed out. [Off-mic comment] ...Believe me I have two in my district and nobody even knows they're there!

[Many people laughing]

They told me!

They voted Republican last time, I know that! Ha ha ha ha....

[Laughter lingers]

[Comment: See? Senators LOVE to show some 'second-hand' knowledge of nudism! Just make sure they have plausible deniability, and they're happy. Call yours today!]

I ask you to resist this uh, motion for the uh amendment, the amendment is uh, is fine, it does not, it does not uh impinge upon the, what the bill intended to do, it's a very good bill because of the fact that it, um, it helps the uh municipalities and um, [off-mic comment] [beginning to laugh] helps the municipalities and um, and controlling the uh, go-go clubs and things like that that are going on right now.

And let's, the distinguished lady's here from Harford <inaudible>... go ahead.

Thank you Mr President. Would the floor leader yield?

Yes.

So, I know that, and I know only because, um, [many people laughing again] I too, was told! Um, too much information. Um, we have one in, in Harford County too. And, nobody, I mean they— they purposely stay to themselves. They have high fences. They— they're not interested in bothering anybody.

And they're quite different from the people that are trying to do this for profit, um, totally different.

No, I mean I think there's several websites that you can go on, where they're families.

They are— they're family clubs.

[Comment: There are two women speaking here in defense of family nudism, presenting it as something they confirmed from the Internet. Here's a big THANK YOU to those running decent nudist websites—the Senators are reading them.]

[Off-mic comment]

Yes, that's true.

And they want to stay to themselves, they don't want anybody to wander upon their s—, their campground or whatever it is. They're totally protective of that, they don't want to offend anybody, and they really don't want you to, eh, they do not want people to know where they are, and um, they make it almost im—, very hard for you to even figure out what it is they are.

Yeah, I...I would urge it, a green vote...

It's very difficult to get in the fences, uh there's, they're locked.

Thank you.

Gentleman from Charles County.

...<inaudible> would the floor leader yield?

Sure!

You know, I , before I vote on these amendments, for 'em or against, and I want to know the bare facts here! [Laughter] I look at the exemption and it's for the, it's for the "American Association for Nude Recreation". Can you describe for me what "nude recreation" is? I have no idea, of how far it goes!

Sir, I— I have no idea.

I know, I know what recreation means to me! He he. [Light laughter] Do you know what...?

Sir, I have no—idea—either.

So this would... so we're going to pass something that we have no idea what "nude recreation" entails?

[Comment: Now we see the work AANR should have been doing while in that Senator's office, instead of just repeating "AANR".]

Well... uh, do you really want to know?

I mean uh, I mean... <snicker>

Uh, what, I'm sorry, what were you...?

No, no, you can scratch that last one. Thank you very much.

Questions on the amendments. On the amendments. The Senator from, from Bowie.

Thank you Mr President, um...

Prince George's County.

I'd like to support the um, motion by my colleague from Prince George's County to "strip" this amendment. [Laugher all around] Ha ha, ha ha ha ha. Thank you.

The Senator from the Capitol city of Annapolis.

Actually, the uh, Mr President, I have a real question. Um, would the floor leader yield, please?

Yes.

Um, I'm just, I'm just curious. Uh, I know that Anne Arundel County has two facilities that might fall under this category, and I'm just curious what effect the bill and this amendment will have on what's going on within Anne Arundel County. Cause in the, cause the delegation hadn't had a chance to really look at this, and what the effect might be.

The— the organization, um, was concerned because when this bill—if the bill passed without the amendment—that they would not be able to, um, rent out a facility and use it for um, a winter event. In— in a way that it would, that it would be extremely discreet. It would- it would not allow them to do that. And that was the reason for the amendment.

So— so, in other words, if I'm understanding what you're saying— this um, entity, Sunny Acres or whatever they call themselves, um, it's wintertime, um, and they want to have an event some place indoors...

A private event...

A private event, indoors...

Indoors.

...this would allow them to go like to the Mariott rent the ballroom? Uh, I mean...?

Uh, only if the place was completely shut away from, um, so that no one could wander in.

So, but essentially this— this— this opens, uh, a pretty wide door, I mean, to the... for these kinds of events to go outside of their normal compound. Now I know their compound's pretty well enclosed and secluded but, the— the net effect of this will mean they can leave that compound to have events in some other location, um, wherever. Is that what this does?

Y-yes.

We're talking about an organization though, that is a nationally recognized organization, um, we're not talking about, uh, just any group.

Well I understand that but, this would seem to have some significant impact, I mean the fact that now this organization, entity, whatever you want to call it, could then, um, go outside their compound, where now they're pretty well, um, forced to confine their activities to that, to that site, and it would seem that what we're doing here with this amendment is uh, is opening up the number of venues that would, that would be available to them. I'm not sure that's a good idea.

[Comment: You folks haven't been thinking of going outside of your compound, have you?]

Are you asking a question or are you speaking to the bill?

Well, yeah, I'm uh, I guess the question you answered was it does open up, uh any number of venues provided they can be secured. Um, but they don't have ...

Provided it would be secure. Only...

But they don't have to be inside the compound that, that, would, that they own. Ok, thank you.

The distinguished lady Senator from Prince George's has now spoken on the bill.

Thank you Mr President. I, too, want to join um, my colleagues from Prince George's County in supporting um, uh the Senator from Prince George's County District 24 in stripping the amendment because, really um, what the effect of those amendments will do is, um provide unintended consequences, uh, of allowing fly-by-night, uh, strip clubs to come into municipalities and open up for events. The American Association for Nude Recreation, um, does appear to be a credible, uh, organization, and while there may be limited locations at this point in time, um, the legislation will enable individuals, according to their website, who want to expand club locations, or expand opportunities for events, to simply do so by joining the organization. Joining the organization means paying a membership fee. And then, uh, uh, coordinating with the organization to then conduct an event. So I think this will have unintended consequences that we who have municipalities in our counties, and in our districts, have fought long and hard to eliminate, uh, the dissatisfaction of having, ah, organizations or businesses that do conduct nude and sexual display activities. Thank you.

[Comment: This Senator's understanding of joining AANR is simply paying a fee. Perhaps he's right. No wonder they don't yet trust organized nudism— when they don't see a nudist philosophy, only a corporation seeking a loophole around their laws.]

Thank you. Has anyone else who has not spoken on this issue wish to speak?

Senator from Cal Frederick.

Thank you Mr President. Thank you. Ladies and gentleman I want you to, if you can look at the, the reprint on the computer as to how this reads with the amendment, the original language says that the penalty is twenty five dollars. If someone should violate this ordinance, only twenty five dollars. The amendment states that they are subject to imprisonment, not to exceed six months, and a fine of not less than five hundred dollars. So, the amendment attempts to corral, as the lady from Prince George's said, identify a legitimate organization, um, something that you know I gather is, is ... I don't know it's... they've been doing it for years, and apparently there's some, um, conclaves or some operations in Anne Arundel County, I guess, Harford County, um, and obviously they've kept their locations a successful secret. Uh, but apparently it's a national organization that's recognized. And, um, the amendment takes the penalty from twenty five dollars, if an organization violates the rule, it frankly allows imprisonment and it allows a five hundred dollar fine. You know if you do against the amendment, then what point is it to have a tiger in this form of the bill, with no teeth? Twenty five dollars to an organization that might be running some type of club that you don't want in your community, is absolutely worthless. It's absolutely worthless. I think based on the way that we went the other day with a bill we had, that's minimum wage for three employees. So, twenty five dollars fine is what you'll end up with if you pass the bill without the amendment. It needs the teeth of imprisonment and a five hundred dollar fine. So I urge that you support the amendment.

[Comment: This Senator's understanding of the bill was that any nudist 'conclaves or operations' in the area would be included as targets of this bill, with higher penalties and imprisonment. Nudism would then become expensive in Maryland unless you were paid up on AANR membership fees.]

Is there anyone who has not spoke on this issue that wishes to be heard?

Senator from College Park, East George's County.

Thank you very much. You know, this uh bill as it first came in was the top legislative priority of a group in Prince George's County. The reason I know about this is this organization has been getting together its uh, the uh, municipal association, Prince George's County Municipal Association. The President of that organization happens to be a Laurel city council member in my district. Uh, he's sitting there, he's now the president, and this was, I commend them for getting everything together. And the ideas, and you can hear it from the other folks in Prince George's County, we've been talking about this since the summertime, and this originally came in as just an opportunity for them to be able to regulate these, these uh, displays of nudity in the district. We thought we were all very supportive of it, we wanted to continue to do it, and we see these amendments as, as sort of clouding everybody's view of this bill. Uh, I just talked to my good friend Senator from uh, my neighboring district, and he said that the uh, the organization is fine with the increased penalties, they don't have any problem with that, moving from twenty five to five hundred dollars. But this other part, dealing with this, this organization just clouds it all. And I, you know I think that, uh, we have to really consider taking this amendment off. And I would ah, support taking that amendment off.

[Comment: Did I just read that right? Which organization does he refer to that supports increasing the 'nudist display' fine from $25 to $500? In either case, it doesn't sound like AANR fought the increased fines for non-AANR nudists.]

Ok. A green vote will adopt the amendments, <ahem> a red vote will reject them. Clerk will call the role.

Mr President? <tone sounds>

Has everyone recorded the vote?

Mr President? ...President? Have you...?

Question on the committee amendments. The question is on the committee amendments.

Mr. President.

Senator from Prince George's...

Let me explain my vote. Uh, this amendment was offered in the House, and it was ah, defeated in the committee, ah. And, um, the unintended consequences we'd be happy on third reader to offer an amendment if you defeat this amendment to increase the fine, which we could put on on third reader.

Ok. Has everyone recorded the vote? Anyone wish to change their vote? And explained the vote, if not, the clerk—will take—the call.

Twenty affirmative, twenty-three in the negative, the Senator's amendment fails. The question is now the favored committee report, Senator. On the favored committee report, any discussion? All in favor aye, opposed no, the favored committee report is adopted. Further amendments, are there further amendments to the bill to the title? Hearing none, Senate Bill 224 is ordered. Print it for third reading.

1:38:22


Was AANR acting in the best interests of nude recreation? Add your comments here by clicking Reply to Topic. Please participate in the poll by clicking This Link.




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Admin
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Posted - 08/03/2005 :  02:20:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Reprinted from the AANR Electronic Club Weekly Report
Here is how AANR reported it...


AANR Electronic Club Weekly Report for April 8, 2005

From the desk of Erich Schuttauf, Executive Director: Execdir@aanr.com

What a WEEK it's been. On Wednesday, a dose of high drama came to the office when we learned that a Senate Committee of the Maryland legislature had voted to recognize the Association with an amendment exempting us from a bill (SB 224) allowing communities to regulate nudity where alcohol is sold within certain counties. That touched off a round of e-mails urging contact to the sponsors of the amendment to thank them and encourage support on the full floor of the Senate.

Unfortunately, yesterday the full Senate opted to strip the amendment by a narrow 23-20 vote. Those opposed were more concerned with the effect the amendment might have in deterring passage of the bill rather than us. I noted in a previous message on the subject that I wished all could have heard the floor debate and the many positive things said about YOUR association... Well, thanks to AANR / AANR East lobbyist Don Murphy you can!

Below in his own words Don explains why yesterday's developments are so significant. He also provides links to where you can hear the debate for yourself. Finally, he is asking for help from all of us to thank several key supporters.


AANR and nude recreational advocates are headed in a new direction in their efforts on behalf of nude recreation...forward! We will no longer be relegated to playing defense. In a new effort to defend your rights and advance the cause, we have gone on the offensive which means that even though we didn't have enough votes for victory in yesterday's debate on the Senate floor, nothing bad happened... In fact, the argument could be made that the MD General Assembly has a much greater understanding and respect of our issue and our position as indicated by the Senate Education, Health and Environmental Affairs Committee's 10-1 vote in favor of our amendment to give AANR chartered events exemption from certain local zoning codes.

You can actually listen to the debate on the Senate floor by clicking on the link below, hit listen, select the first Senate session on April 7th and fast forward to 1:22:15. The debate lasts for 16:05 minutes. Although we lost on a vote of 20-23 w/4 abstentions, all involved in the debate were very complementary to ANNR.

Please send a note of thanks to the following Senators who spoke in support of our amendment:
Janet_Greenip@senate.state.md.us, David_Brinkley@senate.state.md.us,
Allen_Kittleman@senate.state.md.us, Nancy@NancyJacobs.com
Senator Greenip was the floor leader, Senator Kittleman offered the AANR amendment, and Senators Brinkley and Jacobs both spoke in favor of the AANR amendment. This was heavy lifting for these four conservative Republicans and I would appreciate your taking the time to thank them... I would also ask you to thank the President of the Senate, Mike Miller at Thomas_V_Mike_Miller@senate.state.md.us, and Senate Minority Leader, Lowell Stoltzfus at Lowell_Stoltzfus@senate.state.md.us. Senator Stoltzfus is also the Senator who represents Assateague Island where we are attempting to establish a legal nude beach. We can't do it without them... or you.
Thanks for all your support.

Don Murphy

<End of AANR communication>




Here is the restored link, since it doesn't seem to have been ever included in the above article.
Listen along, starting at 1:22:15, to the Maryland Senate, discussing language provided by AANR
RealPlayer LISTEN

This information is provided for education and community discussion. Nudist-Resorts.Org is not affiliated with The American Association for Nude



Country: USA | Posts: 1695 Go to Top of Page

Admin
Forum Admin


Posted - 08/03/2005 :  02:38:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
And now the Naturist Society demonstrates how it is supposed to be done...

In a rare move of cooperation, AANR publishes a success story mentioning The Naturist Action Committee's appearance before the Nevada Senate, which demonstrates how a leading nudist organization CAN defend ALL nudists when speaking to lawmakers.



Reprinted from the AANRGovernmentAffairs@yahoogroups.com newsgroup
Mon, 11 Jul 2005


Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:02:36 -0000
From: "Patricia Orner" <GOVERNMENT@AANR.COM>
Subject: NEVADA SB247

This is from the actual minutes of the Senate Committee on Taxation April 12, 2005 Page 20.

SENATOR TITUS:
In the past, there has been some discussion whether limiting adult entertainment would be contrary to the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. The First Amendment is not an absolute freedom. It has been interpreted to exclude certain things, and I believe you could make a good argument that adult entertainment puts a special kind of burden on the State, which justifies its being taxed in this way. Also, there is a severability clause in the bill that says if the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), or somebody decides to challenge this tax on adult entertainment, and it is found to be unconstitutional, we would just go back to the old tax.

H. NORTH SWANSON, (Naturist Action Committee):
The language in S.B. 247 is disturbing to the Naturist Action Committee, particularly section 10. Live adult entertainment means "any activity provided for pleasure, enjoyment, recreation, relaxation, diversion," et cetera. That language would adversely affect a legitimate business like a naturist resort, which is a family-oriented resort and in no way resembles adult entertainment. Body parts do show in these places, but every effort is made to make it nonsexual. That language needs to be changed.

SENATOR TITUS:
The bill was not intended to get at family nudist colonies.

SENATOR LEE:
If this were my bill, I would probably outlaw brothels, but I understand you are leaving them in to make money off of them. How much revenue do you think this is going to generate?




This information is provided for education and community discussion. Nudist-Resorts.Org is not affiliated with The American Association for Nude Recreation (AANR).



Country: USA | Posts: 1695 Go to Top of Page

Admin
Forum Admin


Posted - 08/18/2005 :  4:57:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
AANR has no right to encourage jail time for non-AANR nudists!

This troubles me greatly, and I'm not going to let them get away with it without informing the nudist public. First we heard about a similar situation in West Virginia, and now it happened again in Maryland. Apparently, when AANR gets up to bat to combat anti-nudist legislation, it's not family nudism they protect, but only businesses that provide money to AANR, and the rest can be considered as criminals outside the law.

This is an excellent illustration of cut-throat corporate policy, where you dominate the market by any means necessary, including using dirty tricks to eliminate the competition. However, when that "competition" consists of legitimate nudist organizations like The Naturist Society, BEACHES foundation, and the Society for Understanding Nudism (which provides the online forum you are reading), the end result is that everyone disappears and only AANR remains, eliminating any other choices available to you.

Would putting all these organizations out of business help nudism in general? Would this be the best way to fulfill AANR's mission statement, namely, "to promote, enhance, and protect in appropriate settings, nude recreation and nude living in the Americas"? Perhaps if AANR were more honest about it, that would read "to promote, enhance and protect AANR's dominance as the only recognized licensing body for nudist business in the Americas".

If this were allowed to continue, in state after state you'd become a criminal to offer a nudist opportunity to the public without paying AANR, and you'd be facing a $500 fine and 6 months imprisonment. No more TNS gatherings at places not sanctioned by AANR, no more independant nude bed and breakfasts, no nudist-friendly businesses anywhere without the AANR logo present.

This would be quite appropriate for an organization whose goals were only measured in dollars.

We deserve better than this. AANR does not have a right to "brand" nudism itself. Nudism does not equal AANR, but this is the message they seem to be promoting to the lawmakers. They are following the advice of their expensive marketing firm to the letter, and they don't seem to care if you are left any good choices. It's AANR or jail my friend.

In case you haven't noticed, to date we haven't asked for one penny from our membership for the services we've provided. Profit and absolute market dominance is not our goal, education of the public is the goal. The level of respect and creativity shown in our community at Nudist-Resorts.Org is something AANR should be proud of, not something to eliminate as competition. Think about it— if AANR's language was passed, whenever any organization chartered a nudist club in Maryland, the officers would all face going to jail for 6 months with $500 in fines, if they failed to get AANR's blessing. AANR would certainly make a lot of money by this process, and they seem to be just fine with that. Are you?



Country: USA | Posts: 1695 Go to Top of Page

grandad_nudist
Forum Member

Posted - 08/19/2005 :  5:45:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I think this is just another example of how every organizations seems to want to punish everyone who is not a paying member of their organization. It is everywhere you look. There are a lot of things about the nudist lifestyle I think stinks more than a skunk being chased by a dog. One thing that bites my naked butt is the difference between how men and women are treated at so many nudist situations. Everyone wants to proclaim that being a nudist is not about sex but hey lets let women in for free or just a few bucks and lets charge men a leg preferablly the middle one. Or how about this one, hey we dont allow male members alone but come on girls we love to have you alone. Now are these alone females for the coupled man or woman or both. If not one or the other then why not band both female and male singles. I think all nudist especially the nice family nudist parks clubs etc should reflect what we say nudist lifestyle is all about and stop the double standard thing.
Grandad



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old hippie
Forum Member


Posted - 08/21/2005 :  12:57:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

We deserve better than this. AANR does not have a right to "brand" nudism itself. Nudism does not equal AANR, but this is the message they seem to be promoting to the lawmakers. They are following the advice of their expensive marketing firm to the letter, and they don't seem to care if you are left any good choices. It's AANR or jail my friend.

In case you haven't noticed, to date we haven't asked for one penny from our membership for the services we've provided. Profit and absolute market dominance is not our goal, education of the public is the goal. The level of respect and creativity shown in our community at Nudist-Resorts.Org is something AANR should be proud of, not something to eliminate as competition. Think about it— if AANR's language was passed, whenever any organization chartered a nudist club in Maryland, the officers would all face going to jail for 6 months with $500 in fines, if they failed to get AANR's blessing. AANR would certainly make a lot of money by this process, and they seem to be just fine with that. Are you?




Until this was posted, I was not aware that there was such great political friction between AANR and other groups. Naive me, I supposed that several different outfits had evolved from several different views of nude, naturist, call-it-what-you-will activities. I have occasionally subscribed to one or another of these organizations, but usually dropped the membership when I grew tired of reading the magazine (no matter how glossy) which spent more attention to self-promotion than to informing me of opportunities or events to enjoy.
Still, it is clear that in this age of political repression, only a strong, fairly large, well-organized entity can effectively campaign for the beliefs of a small group of people. No matter if your interest is nude recreation (NR), or stamp collecting, or raising llamas; if you don't have an organization you are vulnerable to mob rule.
I couldn't tell you who is the largest, or the strongest. I can only hope that some or all of the NR groups will behave like adults and do the job that their members are paying for, rather than wasting their efforts on internicene squabbling. Otherwise, they will all be out of business, and no one will be seen nude without some penalty.

Grow up, or die out.


Dum vivimus, vivamus!



Country: USA | Posts: 325 Go to Top of Page

Admin
Forum Admin


Posted - 01/24/2006 :  11:12:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes— but old hippie, what would you suggest we do? There would be no need for squabbling if AANR wasn't using its considerable influence and market leadership to put any other independent nudist organization out of business. The thrust of their lobbying efforts attempts to prevent the possibility of the members of this forum, for example, of meeting for a nudist event in a given area unless someone has paid AANR. That's monopoly, and not good for any cultural niche. It presumes our members could never form an association that would be worthy of promoting respectable nudist events—and this I reserve the right to do WITHOUT paying taxes to AANR. Remember, AANR didn't invent nudism, and it is not their place to attempt to develop a total monopoly on all nudist activities.


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smendes
Forum Member

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  08:52:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After taking people's money for years this is what they do ?

Nudity is a fundamental right... and its time legislators treated it as such.

I find the average American is fearful of breaking the law... and this is what gives these jokers power over you.

As I said before in other places, be militant in your approach... state your demands.. accept no excuses.... fear no one.... and...

if you do it right... the awe and dread of you will overshadow lesser mortals... and you will get what you want... without even having to resort to violence.

be STRONG ... and very BOLD... fear NO ONE

this is the best advice that I can give... the rest is up to you




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Cheri
Forum Member


Posted - 01/25/2006 :  6:12:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by smendes

After taking people's money for years this is what they do ?
Nudity is a fundamental right... and its time legislators treated it as such.

I find the average American is fearful of breaking the law... and this is what gives these jokers power over you.
As I said before in other places, be militant in your approach... state your demands.. accept no excuses.... fear no one.... and...

if you do it right... the awe and dread of you will overshadow lesser mortals... and you will get what you want... without even having to resort to violence.

be STRONG ... and very BOLD... fear NO ONE
this is the best advice that I can give... the rest is up to you



Nudity is NOT a fundamental right. Nowhere in the US constitution, its Amendments, etc. is it written as such.

Often militant nudity has hurt the cause such as the Berkeley man who ended up getting nudity outlawed in his community where previously it was not. It's better to work with the powers that be to establish nude areas such as Haulover in FL. It took a lot of lobbying and lots of meetings with the South Fla. Free Beaches and government officials.

Education is another branch of the struggle. Informing the general public how wonderful, how relaxing, how de-stressing nudism is, and how harmless. We all have to monitor proposed legislation and zoning ordinances in our communities, our states, to make sure nothing will hurt what we have. I have spoken a number of time in front of state legislatures.

Yes, people are fearful of being arrested, of losing their jobs, their careers, their standing in the community.

Cheri

Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
-
-



Edited by - Cheri on 01/25/2006 6:15:47 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 3519 Go to Top of Page

NaturistDoc
Forum Member


Posted - 01/25/2006 :  9:00:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My goodness. Mr. Mendes seems to want to run his nudist crusade the way President Bush runs U.S. foreign policy: barge in, guns blazing, cloaked in self-righteous virtue, indifferent to the opinions of the rest of the world. As a battered veteran of the late-60's anti-war protests, I am in profound agreement with Cheri. Persistent, patient, repectful education and negotiation with the Powers That Be will eventually get the job done. An in-your-face approach, while more fun in the short term, tends to confirm peoples' opinions that we nudists/naturists are lunatics at best, sociopathic perverts at worst. As if we don't have problems enough already ...


Country: USA | Posts: 871 Go to Top of Page

smendes
Forum Member

Posted - 01/26/2006 :  12:21:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well different strokes for differnt folks...

its already outlawed in my community anyhow.. and that isnt going to change anytime soon.

plus I dont have any standing in my community... nor any job to lose...

I doubt my rantings will hurt your cause though... realistically... I am just a third-world nobody... living on a small island that most of world has never even heard of.



Country: Barbados | Posts: 83 Go to Top of Page

curious1
Forum Member


Posted - 01/26/2006 :  06:19:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I hope this is the last time we get hateful political analogies here. I am not reading the forum to see people's political views but to discuss nudisum. It's one thing when it is on the topic, but another when it is just an excuse to drop your political self-righteousness into the discussion.


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Cheri
Forum Member


Posted - 01/26/2006 :  09:49:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are some topics in many forums I'd prefer to not read. That's one reason I'm glad there are headings.

:) Cheri

Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
-
-



Country: USA | Posts: 3519 Go to Top of Page

vealj
Forum Member


Posted - 01/26/2006 :  10:04:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit vealj's Homepage  Send vealj an AOL message  Send vealj an ICQ Message  Click to see vealj's MSN Messenger address  Send vealj a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NaturistDoc

...As a battered veteran of the late-60's anti-war protests, I am in profound agreement with Cheri. Persistent, patient, repectful education and negotiation with the Powers That Be will eventually get the job done. An in-your-face approach, while more fun in the short term, tends to confirm peoples' opinions that we nudists/naturists are lunatics at best, sociopathic perverts at worst.


We have been persuing a course of continued negotiation with the "Powers That Be", educating the public and being persistent since the '30s. You have to ask yourself, do we have more legal nude beaches and locales since the original XB51 beach? Nudism is considered a "fringe" lifestyle by most Americans and the only real progress in 70 years has been made by those willing to risk upsetting the majority in this country. Where would we be if the original nudists in this country weren't willing to go against prevailing customs and risk arrest and jail time to form the first nudist clubs? I suspect that men would also be wearing tee shirts to the beach since topless men were also outlawed by the majority at the time.

I'm all for negotiation where it has chance to bring about change but I just don't see where we've made all that much progress in the past 70 years. There are no laws on the books anywhere that actually promote nude living or nude beaches. This is after years of AANR's Government Affairs committees hob knobbing with goverment officials and such. The best either TNS or AANR has been able to come up with is that maybe park rangers will look the other way if no complaints are filed.

I think there is room for both incremental improvement in our freedoms through negotiations but I am also supportive of anyone who pushes a more aggressive stance since historically this seems to work best in gaining freedoms. I am a great fan of Steve Gough and the original Bare Guy in Berkely.

Take care and ... Keep it Bare !!!

- veal

Take care and ...
Keep it Bare !!!
- veal
Web:http://www.vealj.com/naturist.html
Nudist Blog: http://360.yahoo.com/vealj



Country: USA | Posts: 285 Go to Top of Page

NaturistDoc
Forum Member


Posted - 01/26/2006 :  11:47:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Curious1,

Yeah, you're right, I should have skipped the political screed. Be assured it wasn't hateful - I even voted for the guy once, but like a lot of people, I've become disillusioned. Still, that's a subject for another forum. What this country really needs is a skinny-dipping President, something we haven't had since LBJ. Surely we can agree on that!



Country: USA | Posts: 871 Go to Top of Page
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