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| paint4life |
Posted - 08/01/2003 : 11:43:05 AM
So... I am just trying to place this discussion in its proper place.
Comments from the biblical arguments in the topic Organizations that Prey on Nudism http://www.nudist-resorts.org/talk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=82&whichpage=2 should be placed here, from now on. Thx. --Paint4Life |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| alanudecpl |
Posted - 08/01/2011 : 9:47:17 PM
if you change the way you look at things. the things you look at change |
| Warmskin |
Posted - 12/26/2008 : 06:17:15 AM
FlCpl4NewdFun said,
Warmskin - I'm with you on all that, I really am. But you need to make sure when quoting scripture you don't take it out of context and mislead people into thinking it's something it's not.
True, Bible passages can be used for anything. I think my reasoning was that here we have a lilly, and it beautiful all by itself. What would one put on it to make it less shameful? But, is a lilly shameful when uncovered? That is my separate bit of logic. I see that phrase as having multiple meanings. I agree that your take is accurate, but there is another lesson from this in the microcosmic sense, I conceive.
Would Solomon's clothing, it if covered the lilly, make it more lovely? We would say not. I think a person is more than a lilly, just as people are more than the birds that Jesus teaches about. If I am uncovered, and I make no effort to make clothing that I could wear, am I ugly or shameful? I ask that in a deep philosophical basis. I have simply chosen a different axis to base the question.
Jesus preached about hypocrisy among those who wore fancy clothing, but were full of dead men's bones inside. If I wear nothing, and am caring about other people, I think I rank better than do the fancily dressed people. I.e., Jesus placed the emphasis on spiritual beauty, as opposed to the outward beauty of a living creature, as to man's evaluations. Inwardly, or spiritually, I am no different when nude or not. I act, believe, and talk the same way whether adorned with clothing, or with just the sunshine. God knows our hearts, and our motivations are called into question. If my motivation is kindly, caring, and loving toward others, the latest fashions won't make me better off, or more beautiful.
As far as sin goes, I find that organic Christian teachings, and nudism render me as close to what Jesus' teachings would have me be - a simple sheep of his flock, in harmony with the world around me. That may seem hard to grasp for some readers because it sounds overly idealistic, but if one has no ideals, then do one know where they are headed or what are shooting for? That is not directed at you FlCpl4NewdFun, but just as grist for the public mill, in general.
My thesis is to cause a different kind of viewpoint, wherein we make Jesus' teachings our own, and then minimize the artificial virtue of being clothed. Purity of heart, and aversion toward fanciful textile supplements both fashion my outlook on nudism. That is the standard to which I repair.
In no way do I ever want to sully the teachings of Jesus. That would go against everthing spiritual that I hold dear.
Thank you very much for your input!!
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson |
| Admin |
Posted - 12/26/2008 : 12:04:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by natman55
God created Adam and Eve and they were naked and unashamed, (Gen 2:25)
then God said "This is VERY good." (Gen 1:26-31)
God would not create sin and pronounce it "good" much less "very good".
God commanded Isaiah to preach naked for three years.(Isa 20:1-3)
God would not COMMAND someone to sin.
"Be Naked but don't Sin."
You know—if someone was of a sinful mind, they'd probably have quite a problem adjusting to simple nudity.
In fact, if we could all just be nude, simply nude, all together at one time worldwide, we'd probably see Jesus. Really.
That is, if you believe the Gospel of Thomas Saying 37 is legit.
For more, here's an extended list of the entire 114 Sayings as published by PBS Frontline. Google has some good information in this book excerpt from Telling the Untold Stories.
That first link is great because of the many translations provided. Worldwide naked party, anyone? |
| FlCpl4NewdFun |
Posted - 12/23/2008 : 5:01:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Warmskin
The teachings of Jesus and how Christians live today can often be two different things altogether, and with emphasis on "the altogether." People get hung up on sin, and some seem to find sin in the most unlikely places. Christianity is freeing when put into true practice, but simple, sublime precepts, over time can be adulterated to the point they scarcely represent their actual origins.
The same can be said about a mountain spring, with its pure water. As time goes along with the flow of this water, it gets polluted and muddied, until no one will drink from it. So it is with religions. I can only speak for the teachings of Jesus, though.
Happily, nudism finds support in the teachings of Jesus:
"And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these."
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson
Warmskin - I'm with you on all that, I really am. But you need to make sure when quoting scripture you don't take it out of context and mislead people into thinking it's something it's not.
That is from the book of Matthew 6:25-34 and has NOTHING to do with supporting nudism NOTHING. You know darn well that passage is about worrying, and more specifically worrying about money and providing for one's self and family. It teaches followers not to worry because if they seek God, not wealth, all those things will be provided by God.
Had you continued the passage, say verse 32: "For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them" You would actually find God is saying we "NEED" them (clothes that is). So actually, it's really about God providing clothes. It's quite a perversion of the scripture to co-opt that to the cause of nudism.
Just like the bad guys try to use the bible against us by taking scripture out of context, let's be careful not to do the same for our own agenda.
Sorry, I don't mean to be a hater, but just keeping it real. |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/23/2008 : 2:32:41 PM
Well said, Warmskin :)
If you don't like my profile picture, then use whiteout on your monitor. |
| Warmskin |
Posted - 12/23/2008 : 2:16:20 PM
The teachings of Jesus and how Christians live today can often be two different things altogether, and with emphasis on "the altogether." People get hung up on sin, and some seem to find sin in the most unlikely places. Christianity is freeing when put into true practice, but simple, sublime precepts, over time can be adulterated to the point they scarcely represent their actual origins.
The same can be said about a mountain spring, with its pure water. As time goes along with the flow of this water, it gets polluted and muddied, until no one will drink from it. So it is with religions. I can only speak for the teachings of Jesus, though.
Happily, nudism finds support in the teachings of Jesus:
"And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these."
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson |
| HannahB |
Posted - 12/03/2008 : 10:47:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by honeysuckle
I like your idea of restoring the Garden of Eden :)
Well OF COURSE you would like restore the Garden of Eden [wink, wink] :)
I don't want to go to far down the religion road here (something tells me I will be attacked if I do), but I must add that I totally agree that all of us are capable of sin, and that yes, that is a crucial corner stone of Christianity. |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/03/2008 : 08:34:49 AM
I like your idea of restoring the Garden of Eden :) |
| Warmskin |
Posted - 12/03/2008 : 01:38:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by honeysuckle
*What danger would one face from a nudist?*
They could spray you with their secret, double-ought spy sunscreen ...
Hehehe, Carole. Very clever quip!! I used those words because I stole them from John Dryden of the 1600s. It was from "King Arthur," a semi-opera, also in the 1600s, wherein a scene depicted water-nymphs were encoutered by a man (possibly King Arthur-- can't precisely recall the libretto). They tried to pursuade the king to join them, stating what could he fear from a naked foe? That sentence did get me to think. The only weapon the nymphs had was their mind and body. That would be a powerful foe, but free-spirited ones, at that.
If I were King Arthur, I would have joined the lovely ladies in the water, but might would kept my eye open for trickery, even a double barreled spray bottle of suntan lotion!!
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." James Madison |
| Warmskin |
Posted - 11/23/2008 : 7:35:30 PM
Hi FlCpl4NewdFun,
I didn't mean to put anybody up on a pedestal, Sorry if I did that. I am merely thinking that people who harm others -- burglary, killing, theft, etc., are usually not nude when they do that soft of thing. As for adultery, and the more personal sinning, you might be correct. It's just that in my experience, all the worst things done to me were done by people who I would have a hard time imagining at a nudist resort. That may be more of an intutional viewpoint. I figure that a nudist doesn't operate, except out in the open.
I am not taking into consideration things like white collar crimes and the like. When I think of obvious and frequest sins, I think of violations of other people. Since nudists are checked for the backgrounds before they can be a resort member, or even visit a resort, depending, there is an extra measure that at least they do not have major criminal backgrounds.
Perhaps, I am clumsily trying to say is that when people are nude, as in the case of nudists, it seems less likely that most of the sins they can commit, save for family problems, are not likely because of their state of nudity. Maybe you can extract the meaning of my ramblings today. If you can, you're ahead of the pack!!
As for the main topic, I don't see that nudity leads to sin, in the most general definintion. Only a foul heart can do that, clothed or unclothed.
That government governs best, which governs least - Thomas Jefferson |
| FlCpl4NewdFun |
Posted - 11/23/2008 : 6:09:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Warmskin
If you want to sin, you can do that with your clothes on, and I think sinning would most likey be committed by textile people. What danger would one face from a nudist?
Hold-up there Warmskin. You are inappropriately putting nudists on a pedestal and dangerously approaching the realm of the "elitist nudist". I'm quite sure Nudists are equally as likely to Sin as the next person (in the traditional sense that is). As far as the danger goes, I suspect that would be dependent on the nudist in question. Surely you've seen a few episodes of the show "Cops." Nothing like too much cheap beer and a TV crew to bring out one's inner nudist.
Remember, as a population we're just like everybody else, no better no worse. Further, you are also linking Sin with secular criminal behavior, when in fact the two are not related and have nothing to do with one another.
Most Christian teaching would define Sin as the seeking of our own will instead of the will of God. Which really has nothing to do with human law or nudity. As you know, perpetual Sin and our human inability to resist it is the entire basis of Christianity (do not confuse with entire "purpose", I said "basis"). Everyone's a sinner by definition, thus we need salvation brought to us by Jesus dying on the cross, yada, yada, yada. (actually a little more complex and mysterious than that but you get the point). I don't remember hearing about an exception for nudists.
I think the question "are nudists less likely to commit crimes?" is what you are really talking about. In that case, religion can be removed from the equation all together. Although, not sure if the answer would be any different.
I hope nobody views this post as an attack on people of faith because it is not, I'd like to think it's actually an affirmation of it's universal equality.
Cheers!
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| n/a |
Posted - 11/23/2008 : 5:24:59 PM
*What danger would one face from a nudist?*
They could spray you with their secret, double-ought spy sunscreen ... |
| Warmskin |
Posted - 11/23/2008 : 3:40:00 PM
Interesting point, Cony. I guess I see the other side of this coin, wherein, secular, social values have directed the manner of dress and undress. I am still trying to find a religious teaching (in Christianity, anyway) that says nudity and sin are linked together.
If you want to sin, you can do that with your clothes on, and I think sinning would most likey be committed by textile people. What danger would one face from a nudist?
I think that nudism promotes peaceful behavior, makes us feel wonderfully vulnerable, and makes us more civil. I have never heard of a nude suicide-squad in the military. 
Religion can help if it focuses on man's relationship with God, and not on what we should or should not wear. Clothes offer no protection in spiritual manners.
If nudism takes more root in America, it will not be because Christianity (I am not knowledgeable to speak for other religions)succumbed to it. It will be because the social, secular conditions have become more human and free.
That government governs best, which governs least - Thomas Jefferson |
| cony |
Posted - 11/23/2008 : 08:26:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Warmskin
Actually religion is an integral part of this thread. My point in this one is that Christianity supports nudism. The restoration of the Garden of Eden sounds good to me.
Unfortunately in my opinion, and I do not wish to insult anyone or their beliefs, but I think that religion has a lot to answer for in the demonising of nude life. The 'modern' translations and interpretations of the texts in the bible were taken from a 'modern' perspective and not that of the time they originated. Don't forget that the bible we know of today really only took it's present form in the 5th Century, following a meeting of the priests/bishops/leaders of the time who decided what was to be included and what not! 
Cony 
ps. modern does not mean this or the previous century
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| Warmskin |
Posted - 11/20/2008 : 9:39:12 PM
Actually religion is an integral part of this thread. My point in this one is that Christianity supports nudism. The restoration of the Garden of Eden sounds good to me.
That government governs best, which governs least - Thomas Jefferson |
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