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| eva-germany |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 7:07:55 PM
Just before I might join any organisation, I read a lot about people leaving the AANR.
I tried to read the AANR section here but there was much to much legal mumbo jumbo for me.
So - what is going on?
sky clad if possible |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kimberly |
Posted - 04/08/2004 : 03:11:33 AM
David I was reading about a student who went to the University of Oklahoma on a football scholarship. He was a big football star and did graduate. However he sued the University of Oklahoma after he graduated because he could not read.
Kim =^.^= |
| Cheri |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 6:34:01 PM
Melissa, Many of the nonlanded clubs have reduced rates for students and those rates can be paid out at a couple $/month. One student paid me $3/month until the $12.50 & $25 was paid. Our club has advanced people who are have low incomes so that they can attend events and things including one fellow who is in his 40s and lives home; he has a courier job for an auto place. I wish other clubs would help the lower income people/families. Unfortunately, there are no beaches here for those who can't afford anything.
I'm the first to say teachers are VERY poorly paid. Both my Melissas are teachers.
Hugs, mom
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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| The Bead Man |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 10:51:58 AM
The same even applies at U.S. Universities where coaches are paid as much as departments of teaching staff, and most sports "scholarship" recipients don't graduate.
I was amused to get my college magazine from Cambridge recently, where in the Societies section, the Cheerleading club (a new concept in a land of Cricket and Rugby!) announced they had received enough grants and donations both buy the squad's uniforms, pay their contibution to the grounds fees and pay their bus fares!
Cheers!
David
"The Bead Man"
www.thebeadman.net
The Bead Artist formerly known as Revilo42 |
| Kimberly |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 02:21:51 AM
I agree bornnude. Some guy makes more money in a year playing ball than I do in a life time, and someone who is responsible for the education of our kids, can barely make a living. Go figure!
Kim =^.^= |
| bornnude |
Posted - 04/07/2004 : 02:12:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by melissastarr
"Many youngsters get out of college earning over 50K a year"
While some college grads make a lot of money, there are many more who are barely scraping by.
Absolutely correct. The technical fields are better paid but it seems to me, parents are all too willing to let our kids be taught by people who are underpaid.
I always thought it was sad that someone who plays sports or looks good on a screen can pull down millions while teachers just got by. |
| melissastarr |
Posted - 04/06/2004 : 12:54:30 PM
"Many youngsters get out of college earning over 50K a year"
While some college grads make a lot of money, there are many more who are barely scraping by. The job market lately stinks and some college graduates can't even find a job. For those who do find a job, we're often finding that the pay is pretty bad at the beginning. When I graduated from college in 1997 I started off with a job that paid only about $16,000 a year- barely enough to scrape by on as I was living independently. My next job after college paid $18,000, the next job started at $19,570 and went up to around $22,000. Again, not much money for someone who lives alone and has to pay for food, car, housing, etc. I don't know if I would have been an AANR member or whether I would have gone to nudist clubs when I was living on that salary. Also, I was in graduate school so that I could make more money (I now make a whole lot more and live more comfortably), which further drained the budget. I know that my plight is not just me. My closest friends have had similarly paying jobs and most of them, at the ages of 25-35, still make a very low pay. In short, many college graduates don't have enough money for AANR membership and if they do have AANR membership they can't afford to get into the clubs anyway, so they probably don't see the point. The beach, however, is pretty much free.
Melissa
___________________________________________________________________
"Do they say that nudity and sex always go together? Well, then be careful and don't get pregnant while taking a bath." |
| The Bead Man |
Posted - 04/06/2004 : 11:59:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Cheri
David, I can recommend copying what you've written and direct it to Pat at the AANR office. She is Erich's new exec. assist. Maybe they'll accept the suggestion.
Best regards, Cheri
Posts crossed again!
Thanks, Cheri!
Cheers!
David
"The Bead Man"
www.thebeadman.net
The Bead Artist formerly known as Revilo42 |
| The Bead Man |
Posted - 04/06/2004 : 11:58:08 AM
My previous post crossed with Greg's and Cheri's reply!
Regarding ettiquette, although the beaches may be lacking, the same problem doesn't normally apply to back yards, nude cruises or carribbean resorts. Exceptions such as Hedonism aren't really significant, as the expectations are different, and staff are still present to prevent actual harrassment - it's just the expected level of tolerence is different.
If AANR could encourage higher membership, and visibility of its forums, etc., more people would know what behaviour is expected of them.
Cheers!
David
"The Bead Man"
www.thebeadman.net
The Bead Artist formerly known as Revilo42 |
| Cheri |
Posted - 04/06/2004 : 11:58:05 AM
David, I can recommend copying what you've written and direct it to Pat at the AANR office. She is Erich's new exec. assist. Maybe they'll accept the suggestion.
Best regards, Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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| The Bead Man |
Posted - 04/06/2004 : 11:39:29 AM
Cheri,
Thanks for the info. AANR is doing the right things, but would certainly benefit in political clout, if it could increase its membership ten-fold, which would excede that of the relatively powerful ACLU, and would still only equal 1% of americans who "admit" to having skinny dipped! I believe that to do this it has to be seen to address the interests of the majority of nudists who are not club attendees.
Today that means its web site, which is almost certainly the place non-club members will find out about AANR, must be saying "this is how we will support you [already] being naked on the beaches, in the parks or in your back yard", rather than yesterdays message of "join a club and experience nudity for the first time".
The web site does not need to promote to existing affiliated club members, as they can be better reached through the clubs directly. Information such as officers, mission, charter, budgets, etc. should be at least as prominent on the website as discounts on car rentals, as this is essential information for prospective members to decide if the ACLU is for them; it should not be reserved for members. Providing at least read only access to AANR forums can also bring non-members "into the fold"and more importantly convey what nudism is about to a wider audience; private forums may be perceived to be a benefit of membership, but although they may help retain existing members, do nothing to bring in new members. This forum is supported by the ads at the bottom of the page - making the AANR forum public would be like having an AANR recruitment ad on every page on this forum!
I'm sorry if this seems negative - it's not my intent, but I'm afraid AANR's external image seems out of touch to today's nudist, and a few minor changes to the website could bring a great improvement.
Cheers!
David
"The Bead Man"
www.thebeadman.net
The Bead Artist formerly known as Revilo42 |
| Cheri |
Posted - 04/06/2004 : 11:33:24 AM
Greg, Many clubs (including mine) offer discounts to those under 25 yrs. of age. The AANR has a student rate as well as does TNS. Many youngsters get out of college earning over 50K a year (that's more than 20K more than what I earn each yr. from state employment after 10 yrs. for what I do). I don't think so much that it's the $ that may be holding back people, but what they perceive as the value. I do know that nudists don't like to spend $. Cedar Creek in SC has a number of young families as well as us oldsters. :) Travelites has a number of 20-30s who are singles.
It may be that the younger folk have lots to do in their lives. I happen to be a nudist as I live my life. They may be members for one or two years and then go on to joining some other "club".
Just my opinion.
Hugs, Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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| greg_ldssdc047 |
Posted - 04/06/2004 : 11:13:22 AM
I'd like to share some of my perceptions and thoughts, if I may:
AANR is its own worst enemy. It seems to be suffering from multiple-personality disorder... each "personality" pulling it in a different direction. This phenomenon, however, doesn't originate in the national organization... it originates in the clubs.
1. On the one hand, I see the completely mercenary goal of bringing in paying members. No one is opposed to an influx of new money.
2. On the other hand, the 'old nudist' clique (the ones who were getting nekkid back in the 50's and 60's), are often reluctant to see a whole lot of new faces. They feel they've paid their dues over the years, and deserve to 'steer the ship'. New nudists don't necessarily share their views and values of the way things ought to be done.
3. The 'old nudist' clique are also comprised of a great many elderly folks, who are less than enthusiastic about being "overrun" with a bunch of young families with little kids and teens.
4. 'New nudists', by the same token, tend to perceive nudist clubs and the AANR as the 'nude chapter' of AARP. Nudist clubs aren't changing to meet the needs of a younger, more active population. This is why I think we're seeing a trend of young nudists flocking to the beaches, nude cruises and carribean vacations, but the local club is "just a place for a bunch of lazy old nudists to sit around by the pool drinking beer."
5. People are marrying later and later, if ever. If you're not seeing a lot of people in their 20's and 30's at the clubs, it's because there are more adult singles in their 20's and 30's today than ever before. 'Family oriented' clubs tend to be 'couples' oriented.
6. Among these singles, unfortunately, there's a huge disparity between single males getting into nudism and single females. And of the clubs that attract singles, they are often quickly overwhelmed by single males who are into it for the erotic thrill it gives them.
7. The same is true for the beaches, these days. The beaches (and other public venues) are the most 'singles friendly' nudist venues in the entire world of nudism, and so that's where they go. Unfortunately, many public venues have a very tenuous hold on nudist ettiquette. As more people get nekkid at these locations without first having learned 'the rules' at a more structured place, we're seeing an attitude of 'anything goes' becoming more and more prevalent. I fear we'll be losing many of our beaches and hot-springs in the near future, if this trend continues. Basically, there is a rapidly rising group of nudists who are coming to it without being 'initiated' into the the traditional nudist values and ettiquette. Therefore, this 'unorganized nudism' is swiftly becoming what many people initially expect it to be... that is, a place to check out people of the opposite (or same) sex for the arousal, and hopefully finding a partner.
In summary, AANR and the privately held clubs will need to become more singles-friendly and more activity oriented, if they want to attract a younger crowd.
Lowering the access fees will help, too, of course, but let's think about the economics aspect for a minute. In nudism, the 'product' being sold is not so much the place, but the people. While people can certainly be nude at home alone or with their family at home, nudist clubs are selling social nudism. Social nudists find something refreshing, interesting, and invigorating about being nude with other people. But people tend to want to socialize with people of their own age and culture. This is why the older nudists are so reluctant to open the gates wider to new nudists. But if the goal is to increase the practice of social nudism at the clubs, this will have to happen. Initially, lowering prices and increasing activity offerings would be the best way to increase demand. But 'demand begets demand' in this case. The more people you have at the clubs in the younger demographic groups, the more |
| Cheri |
Posted - 04/05/2004 : 6:15:13 PM
David, I totally agree with the fact that we need to bring the unaffiliated into the fold. When we do get hit with any anti-nudist, we need the numbers to be listened to (horrible grammar). If each AANR member brings in only one new person, we will grow.
The budget of the organization is available to any member who asks. It may have also been published in the Bulletin (I don't remember).
The AANR is a 501(c)7 organization as is my club, Travelites, Inc. It is a not-for-profit, but not a non-profit. The AANR Education Foundation is a non-profit.The AANR Education Foundation makes funds available for grants or gifts for charitable, scientific, educational and literary purposes. The foundation has begun to receive applications. If you would like to secure an application, please contact Pat Plumstead at the AANR office e-mail execoffice@earthlink.net or Extension 223 at the AANR office.
Hugs, Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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| The Bead Man |
Posted - 04/05/2004 : 2:20:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by spadoc
Folks,
Once again, however you would like to join AANR, if you want to see this lifestyle continue and grow, please make that decision and commitment.
Walt Iliff
Our postings crossed. What the AANR website fails to do is show how my joining will help see the lifestyle continue and grow, at least outside clubs.
Our local (non-landed) club has 65 members - for a county with over 1 million residents this seems unrepresentative of the number of nudists in a hot part of the country. I probably know more nudists here than are actually club members!
If this is anything like typical (and AANR's own statistics show it with 50,000 members, compared to 40 million americans who have skinny dipped), the AANR needs to recognize that nudism has come out of the closet and attract the 99+% of nudists who currently don't find AANR meets their needs.
Cheers!
David
"The Bead Man"
www.thebeadman.net
The Bead Artist formerly known as Revilo42 |
| The Bead Man |
Posted - 04/05/2004 : 2:03:33 PM
I had another look at the AANR website to see if I had got the wrong impression when I went there last, and I found it was as I remembered it.
I feel it is targeting a different market to me! It assumes that I have never been socially naked, that I'm looking for private clubs and resorts to try it for the first time, and a "free" CD ROM of US clubs (not free beaches!) would tempt me to join.
Going to the "Member Benefits" page, it does say that membership gives you the opportunity to support programs including government affairs (but doesn't say what proportion goes for this purpose), but the eye-ctching bulleted list is mainly business: the free Bulletin subscription, membership in the AANR travel agency (I've never found a T/A who charged for membership!) and various discounts for products and club fees. I missed the campaigning aspect on the first reading, as I skipped the commercial stuff.
With the website's emphasis on clubs and discounts, and the fact it's a .com, not a .org (typical of non-profit organizations), it gives the impression of being primarily a business (whatever the facts are) aimed at getting first time nudists to go to affiliated clubs.
While that is fine, it doesn't describe what I'm looking for - an organization to support my right to be naked anywhere it won't cause offense (my back yard, "unofficial" and official beaches, etc.) The commercial stuff actively detractss from that, and nowhere on the site is a description of AANR's charter (am I being asked to join a non-profit organization, subscribe to a commercial newsletter, or what?) and the Privacy Policy refers to a mysterious "canada.com network of sites".
Maybe the big issue is with the website - it seems to be addressing a much narrower group of people (first timers looking for discounts) than it could or should be.
Cheers!
David
"The Bead Man"
www.thebeadman.net
The Bead Artist formerly known as Revilo42 |
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