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Admin
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 Posted - 05/28/2008 : 12:48:17 PM
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Swinger lifestyle rules of engagement
Prepared by the Society for Understanding Nudism and Nudist-Resorts.Org
The following are our best current recommendations for resorts and clubs who choose to host swinger lifestyle groups for events. These suggestions are designed to allow the resort or club to collect the revenue associated with these events, while minimizing friction within the nudism industry.
These recommendations, as displayed, are subject to revision. Last revised 16Aug2009.
Recommendations for Host Resort:
- Be sure that any in-house advertising is acceptable to a conservative guest. Be careful with images or themes that may have a prurient interpretation.
- Avoid the appearance that the host resort is actively promoting the swinger lifestyle. The goal is passive hosting.
- The newsletter should be used to promote only family friendly events. If adult events are to be included, the presentation must be acceptable to your entire clientele.
- Actively oversee any promotions created by the guest groups. Require them to follow these guidelines.
- Promote a balanced message whenever allowing references to the swinger lifestyle. For instance, "Party like a rock star, but please read the house rules before attending our event."
- Keep in mind your advertisements are read by conservatives and swingers alike. Be aware of potential blowback.
- Do not use the host resort website to link to a guest group's website where pornographic images or language is displayed.
- Be aware that people research widely on the internet, and communities compare notes. Nothing stays hidden.
- Assure the public there is a policy in place for lifestyle events. Show consistency in applying that policy.
- Avoid creating the perception that the host resort is promoting to only one demographic, i.e. lifestyle groups.
- If an after party is allowed as part of event advertising, be sure there is no involvement on the part of the host resort to actively promote it.
- Minors and unauthorized guests shall be entirely denied access to swinger lifestyle events at all times.
- When hosting an adult themed event open to in-house guests, adequate cues shall be present at the door of the event to indicate its adult nature, should anyone choose not to enter. "Adult theme party" is preferable to "theme party", if in fact a swinger lifestyle group is hosting.
- Employees shall be forbidden to wear swinger lifestyle insignia or clothing while on duty.
- The host resort shall be diligent that security personnel enforce the no-open-sex rule aggressively and often, especially in light of the possibility of new guests misunderstanding the house rules.
Guest Group requirements:
- Each and every use of the corporate name or logo must be authorized in advance. All guidelines must be followed strictly.
- Advertisement will be clear that the host resort is not the creator or active host of your event. "Nudist resort presents swinger party" would be prohibited.
- The name of the host resort shall be concealed from public view where possible. It is preferred that the actual location be revealed only to those requesting RSVP.
- The terms nudist or naturist shall not be used, since nudists as a group do not like the association. Clothing optional or nude is preferred.
- There shall be a clear reference to the house rules in all written advertising.
- Group members must be informed that daytime behavior must remain family friendly.
- At no time shall there be a suggestion or innuendo that the house rules against overt sex are relaxed in some way by management. Avoid language like "anything goes" or "sexy madness and mayhem."
- Images within graphics associated with the event shall be non-pornographic and not appeal to the prurient interest. Ads for events will not be placed within a pornographic context.
- References to sluts, whores, pimps or other sexually degrading themes are not to be used.
- Wristbands can encourage better mingling within your group.
- Group guests will be instructed not to proposition or try to convert strangers that may not expect to encounter the swinger lifestyle.
- Keep sexual references within your group, especially if your voice carries.
- Police your own group to obey house rules always.
- Take any play behind closed doors.
- Enjoy flirting and being sexy. You are encouraged to strut your stuff, but avoid anything that has the appearance of an actual sexual act, or anything vulgar or obscene.
- Lifestyle associated insignia and materials shall not be displayed anywhere near the front entrance of the resort. A display can be arranged within the area of the event.
- Group members shall be informed that adult-oriented advertisements or insignia on clothing etc. are not allowed before 9PM.
Your detailed input and suggestions for improvement are most welcome. Click Reply to Topic to add your comments.
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Cheri
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Posted - 05/28/2008 : 2:32:32 PM
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Some acquaintances of ours who are "players" (behind closed doors only) have tattoos written in Chinese translated to read "Do you want to play?" Hers is on her leg below her hemline. Some thing asking the prospective group to not allow something this overt to not have to see something like this especially if you can read Mandarin.
Cheri
Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
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Edited by - Cheri on 05/28/2008 2:34:49 PM |
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nudeisntlewd
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Posted - 05/28/2008 : 6:30:50 PM
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I pride myself on being open-minded, diplomatic and thoughtful. I even play the devil’s advocate sometimes. I'm neither a flower-child nor a prude. But in my opinion, I don't think affiliated resorts should be involved in offering swinger type events. I would think that it would foster inaccurate beliefs about nudists in general and give the resort and all of us a bad name, as well as making some members uncomfortable. How after all, would swinger guests know whom they could and could not approach? What others do for amusement is their business, but I just think they should organize private parties at private residences if they want to meet others with the same interests, swap, have panti-parties, or whatever.
Another personal opinion that I hold is this: That casual sex is shameful, indecent and immoral and doesn’t promote a loving relationship. Therefore, I would never hold membership in a club that knowingly promotes it in any way. Again, while a lot of people get their panties in a twist over that statement, it’s just my opinion. And as such, it influences where I’d spend my money and time. I don't want to be bothered by them, and I should think they'd not want to be a bother to others.
Now for those of you out there who may be swingers or just disagree, amassing with hayforks and torches, I'm not making a judgement of you personally. I just think swinging and nudism are seperate activities that should not invade each other's territories.
So the only suggestion I have for “Rules of Engagement” is: Send them somewhere else. They can start a sex resort rather than perverting nudist resorts and giving nudists in general a bad name by association. Of course, that is up to the individual resorts to decide whether or not to whore themselves for money. But I think AANR and SUN can and should disenfranchise clubs and resorts that offer such controversial opportunities and disassociate themselves from them, rather than promoting the questionable behavior to increase the club's income.
I can't believe that this is something that the clubs feel a need to cater to, considering how bent out of shape the self-proclaimed “true nudists” get about the physiological situation of a simple erection. God forbid you fall asleep and get one in public, but come on by and swap your wife. Whether or not you agree with my opinions and sensibilities, you must see that non-nudists on the outside surely need little excuse to call us out and accuse us of wrong doing.
Just as a sidebar (& a very small bit of humor), I guess in our group, people will need to go to the dresser and get some panties in order to twist them! (Bah dump.)
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Edited by - nudeisntlewd on 05/29/2008 11:27:29 AM |
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Admin
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Posted - 05/28/2008 : 7:29:40 PM
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Good post, Randy.
Judging from the people we personally know, many of the couples attending this type of event only entertain the idea of swapping as a fantasy, sometimes for years without actually having an encounter. It's a style of flirtation as entertainment. Most express this through sexy clothing or club wear.
Try to be fair with them, many of whom are quite conservative. Many of them attend these events, but you would not call them swingers. There were over 450 people reported at a recent "theme party" at xxxxxx, an unknown portion of which are not "swingers".
As for the lifestyle group themselves, the 'could or could not approach' problem is addressed with wristbands or other insignia. It's in one of the rules we've included above.
Just to be clear— we're not suggesting more resorts adopt this practice. These recommendations are for the case where a resort is not likely to abandon the swinger revenue.
These rules are suggested as a way to resolve the political differences between AANR and some of the largest resorts in Florida, many of which have exhibited no willingness to abandon the additional lifestyle swinger revenue. These are still just meet and greet socials after all, and the large well organized lifestyle groups drive extra business in the front door. And they generally behave just fine.
The premise being that this will not change, some rules are needed to stabilize this adult clothing optional industry as separate from the pure nudist one-- separate and still within the law. These clubs are allowing their patrons to be sexy, but not to have sex in the open. We do not support those establishments that go beyond the law and allow open sexual acts on the premises.
We support some destinations not calling themselves a "nudist resort", but instead using "clothing optional resort" or some such terminology. We personally do not call those establishments nudist resorts, we reserve that term for family friendly around the clock establishments.
Further, we don't have the power to make the swingers leave these nudist resorts. No one can tell the resorts how to do business. The only power we have is for you, the nudists, to show up in sufficient numbers to demonstrate a superior economic force.
So instead of handing this 50+ million dollar luxury resort over to the swingers with a big red bow on top, we could take it back with our wallets.
Short of that, we've only got these suggested rules of engagement.
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nudeisntlewd
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Posted - 05/29/2008 : 10:59:21 AM
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I was not aware that action had been taken by AANR towards - - the day prior to when I wrote the previous post. I found that out when I saw the "AANR and - -" thread. I was glad to see that they (AANR) are paying attention to and addressing the situation. Hopefully, everything can be resolved and things work out for the best, whatever that may be.
I will try to be fair to lifestylers in how I think of them. But I think it should be noted that when I hear of "swingers" my first thought is immediately that they are "wife swappers." Perhaps that’s inaccurate or even unfair. But that I think, is what most people on the street would say if you ask them, “What do you think swingers are or do?” So what I'm saying is: If I'm right and most people really do think that, the image for us and them must really be bad when they see the two groups in fellowship.
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Edited by - nudeisntlewd on 05/29/2008 11:31:44 AM |
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Admin
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Posted - 05/29/2008 : 2:52:11 PM
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You're quite right, Randy. There are major problems of public perception.
There is a huge variation in types of "swingers", or lifestyle-friendly people--just as many as we have types of "nudists". We sure know we have all types here in NRO! That's a very good thing, since we all know our rules of engagement for this forum, and because of that, we are able to get along and enjoy our time here together.
Part of the problem is in terminology.
Most of the people attending a theme party at the adult-oriented resorts, from our personal observations and further research, are not swingers in the true sense of the word. They come and dance, dress sexy, enjoy the party atmosphere, and go home together alone. They may be one of those couples that entertains the idea of a swinger experience at some remote time in their lives. Would you call those people swingers? We don't. We call them lifestyle-friendly, meaning they are tolerant of the presence of lifestylers and they enjoy an adult atmosphere.
Then again, even among the true swingers, there is a division. We can support the presence of swingers who are on the right side of the fence of discretion. We believe most people will agree, once they think about it. You usually don't care if your neighbor is a swinger if he keeps discreet about it, and is otherwise a good neighbor. We believe that's an American value.
Discreet or non-discreet? Does your neighbor have a neighborhood newsletter than he manages, and inserts his lifestyle agenda? If you invite him to your home for dinner, does he embarrass your guests with references to swinging? If the answer is "no" for both, chances are he's both discreet and responsible as a swinger.
We have no problem with discreet swingers spending their money at our resorts. You probably wouldn't even notice them there, and they are helping to pay the bills.
However, we feel any resort that encourages the presence of the non-discreet swinger is looking for trouble down the road.
For instance, one example of a non-discreet swinger is one who causes the resort to have fallout by publicly associating the host resort with the inner agenda of the group. When Swappernet chose to say that "Swappernet & So-and-so Resort PRESENTS Tampa's hottest swingers night", they were treating the host resort with disrespect.
Discreet or non-discreet? Take the host resort for the Swingfest08 convention. Are we suggesting boycotting this textile resort year round because of the association? No, because the association was never set up by the internet marketing people running the websites. Look around that site, and you'll see very little mention of the host resort. (And NO mention of Angie Fox's resort any more, if you'll notice, even though she was speaking there.) That's done discreetly, and doesn't harm the host resort, it's not in your face. Those that prefer not to be aware of it, easily can do so.
Discreet or non-discreet? Sex in the pool? Non-discreet. Take it to your room? Discreet. Only one group causes trouble, the other group just helps to pay the bills.
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Pete Knight
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Posted - 05/29/2008 : 3:09:37 PM
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Swinging is more than just swapping, it can involve public sex with your partner or with someone else's partner, it could be group sex, same gender sex, in fact anything goes (Or so I'm told.) and yes there are a lot of swingers who are also nudists, the two aren't mutually exclusive but some swingers don't seem to think there is a dividing line, but we naturists DO think there is a dividing line, this has often lead to conflict.
I don't have a problem with swingers per se, but I do have a problem with swingers club masquerading as nudist clubs, this problem isn't isolated to the USA, we get it over here, only recently our national representative body 'British Naturism' through one of the members petitioned a new club in south London that advertised itself as a naturist club, they agreed to withdraw the use of the word naturism, it was a sex club after all.
Sadly all too many people don't actually know what nudism/naturism is all about, even some people who claim to be naturists insist that erections are part of it, and that social nudity is an erotic experience, I would say that anyone getting a thrill from showing their naked body off or seeing naked people is fooling no one but themselves. If you want to get a thrill out of nudisty then go join a swinger or sex club, please don't get your jollies staring at my girlfriend, or parading your todger in front of her.
Pete Knight
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nudeisntlewd
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Posted - 05/29/2008 : 4:27:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
…There are major problems of public perception. …There is a huge variation in types of "swingers", or lifestyle-friendly people--just as many as we have types of "nudists". We sure know we have all types here in NRO!
Part of the problem is in terminology.
…Most of the people attending a theme party at - -, from our personal observations and further research, are not swingers in the true sense of the word. They come and dance, dress sexy, enjoy the party atmosphere, and go home together alone. … they enjoy an adult atmosphere. …
…Then again, even among the true swingers, there is a division. I personally can support the presence of swingers who are on the right side of the fence of discretion. I believe most people will agree, when they think about it. …
…I have no problem with discrete swingers spending their money at our resorts. You probably wouldn't even notice them there, and they are helping to pay the bills. …
I agree in principle with a lot of what you say and I support your live-and-let-live philosophy as well as your diplomatic style. But I’ve highlighted a couple of points that I’d like to comment on.
Yes, there are many variations in that demographic as well as in ours or in any other. But I have to say that I think the perception is much deeper than just terminology. And if terminology is a big issue that may distort public perception, consider this: “They dress sexy.” And “They enjoy an adult atmosphere.” What else can be the public perception of those two statements except depravity? OK, dress sexy. People do that everywhere. But generally not to the extremes, I think, that one would expect to find at such a party. And I will say that I was positively aghast as I recalled the “Naughty Schoolgirl Party" at - -. Could it get worse than that? Have them dress sexy and pretend they’re little girls while you’re at it! No gray area there. What do nudists oppose more than inappropriate public behavior and child abuse? Nothing! That party was not about either, but what would it stand out to the public as representing? And that they enjoy an adult atmosphere? An adult atmosphere might mean a dinner party with fine wine and no kids. But we all know that isn’t the idea that pops into the public’s heads when we put adult atmosphere and a nudist resort together.
Given my position on the concept of swinging, I can't personally support the presence of a swinger group. But I could tolerate the situation assuming that they aren’t in my face, and I wouldn’t even notice that they are there. But how could a visitor or a member of the resort not know that they are there?
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melissastarr
Forum Member
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Posted - 05/29/2008 : 7:43:45 PM
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Swingers are swingers and if that's what you want to be, that's fine with me. Nudists are nudists and if that's what you want to be, that's also fine with me (you probably knew that, though.) In fact, if you want to be a nudist and a swinger, be my guest. My only thought on the whole thing is this: don't do anything that's going to put our nudist parks, resorts, beaches, etc in jeapordy. If you're going to be a swinger, don't do anything out in the open at a nudist place that's going to make it non-family friendly and possibly cost us our properties. It's that simple to me. No judgement needed- if you're a swinger, you probably don't care what I think. If you're not a swinger, you've probably made up your own mind about this topic anyway. So I won't throw out an opinion as it doesn't matter, I'm just saying don't do anything- any of us- that's going to make us lose our rights.
Melissa
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"Be who you are and say how you feel because those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter" -Dr. Seuss
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FireProf
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Posted - 05/30/2008 : 12:30:18 AM
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Melissa,
I personally think that the vast majority of swingers could give a rats arse about what we nudist think. They probably think we are somewhat hypocritical because they really don't understand us or our philosophy. To them....naked means sex and sex with whoever and wherever.
They've now successfully taken over a top naturist venue, the owners and management have allowed this and they are probably laughing their heads off at us.
We're with you 100%. We feel the same way but until the clubs and resorts feel the same way about the naturist lifestyle and agree with our philosophy and stop thinking about the $$$$...I don't think they are going to care what we have to say.
All we can do is keep our $$$ away and when the swingers get tired of the same ol partners and it stops being fun and exciting for them....then the resort may be willing to revert back to where they started.
Just my opinion.
Oh yeah..........and ........I do care about your opinion!
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johninfla
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Posted - 05/31/2008 : 11:28:45 PM
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I think your recommendations are a very thorough and cogent take on the reality of the nudist-resort business today; if everyone followed them there would of course be far less conflict.
The simple fact at - - is that the card-carrying pure nudists were failing to keep the doors open. "Premier nudist resort bankrupt" wouldn't be a very good headline either. So, knowing that the lifestylers tend to spend lots more money they've simply decided to remain in business and provide a return to the investors. Capitalism on the hoof. - - is not the "Church of Nudism" and shouldn't be expected to fill that role; it is, first and foremost, a for-profit business.
They're of course finding their way; their marketing went a bit too extreme and they've pulled it back. Continual adjusting will probably make it acceptable to most.
What probably emboldened them is that a private swinger club opened up nearby. The predictable groups raised a big hoo-hah, the county commissioners met and...nothing happened. It was duly noted that at least the police didn't get called to that location any more and people no longer got shot in the parking lot. Erich did a fine job distancing the AANR clubs from that sort of swinger club and life went on. The swinger club's business is booming. Of course there'll be some fallout about - - and we'll have to deal with it when and if it happens.
Which brings me to another point. I think in the next few years we're going to see a lot of family-style clubs faced with the prospect of becoming a lot more "fun" or simply going out of business. To me at least, that appears to be the way the industry is going to go no matter who doesn't like it. If you don't give your customers what they desire they'll simply go somewhere else or do something else entirely.
Just my two cents worth.
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Bare Warrior
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Posted - 06/01/2008 : 5:02:16 PM
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Here we go with being irresponsible again and not willing to offend under any circumstances. It is interesting how many of the above comments started with apologies or qualifiers. Why is that necessary in this discussion?
Look at the definition of naturism and then that of swinging. The ONLY thing that may be common is being naked. Everything about swinging centers around sex, open sex. Naturism is about living in the world, both in private and public, nude. Sex has very little to do with nudism.
We should not give up, and that is what we are doing, our lifestyle and life philosophy, to some other group that really has nothing in common with nudism. I don't think we would like to see our resorts becoming Textile Only on a regular basis, why support swinging on a regular basis?
Making a buck is important, but do you really think having a "don't ask, don't tell" policy will benefit nudism in the long run or these resorts. It will soon be impossible, regardless of how hard we try, to not associate swinging and nudism. Why does AANR and other organizations exist? For that very reason. As soon as there is hard, wide spread evidence of sex parties at these resorts they will be forced out of business. Who really believes that wont happen.
Let swingers organize themselves, find their own venues and create their own political action groups. Do you think they will really care what happens to nudism? Why should they, they are not nudist.
Bare Warrior
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melissastarr
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Posted - 06/01/2008 : 6:22:31 PM
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The problem is that being naked isn't the only commonality between swingers and nudists: being human and being sexual in nature are also commonalities. We have to deal with that as best we can. I'm glad that we're setting up some guidelines so that all people- swingers, non-swingers, Presbyterians, Unitarians, Jews, Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, and everyone else- can get along without there being conflict.
Melissa
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"Be who you are and say how you feel because those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter" -Dr. Seuss
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pilot
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Posted - 06/01/2008 : 10:44:55 PM
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Melissa...
I concur. However, guidelines are useful only insofar as people are willing to adhere.
We can only hope.
pilot
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go n nude
Forum Member
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Posted - 06/02/2008 : 04:53:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bare Warrior
Here we go with being irresponsible again and not willing to offend under any circumstances. It is interesting how many of the above comments started with apologies or qualifiers. Why is that necessary in this discussion?
Look at the definition of naturism and then that of swinging. The ONLY thing that may be common is being naked. Everything about swinging centers around sex, open sex. Naturism is about living in the world, both in private and public, nude. Sex has very little to do with nudism.
We should not give up, and that is what we are doing, our lifestyle and life philosophy, to some other group that really has nothing in common with nudism. I don't think we would like to see our resorts becoming Textile Only on a regular basis, why support swinging on a regular basis?
Making a buck is important, but do you really think having a "don't ask, don't tell" policy will benefit nudism in the long run or these resorts. It will soon be impossible, regardless of how hard we try, to not associate swinging and nudism. Why does AANR and other organizations exist? For that very reason. As soon as there is hard, wide spread evidence of sex parties at these resorts they will be forced out of business. Who really believes that wont happen.
Let swingers organize themselves, find their own venues and create their own political action groups. Do you think they will really care what happens to nudism? Why should they, they are not nudist.
Bare Warrior
We've seen who plays the rules at our Resorts and not mention one, they didn't and yes they don't care what happens to this lifestyle. Throw out the welcome mat and we'll find out quickly this isn't welcome at all.
go n nude
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Bare Warrior
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Posted - 06/02/2008 : 6:50:03 PM
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I'm sorry guys, but there is a lot of pie in the sky wishful thinking going on here. After years and years of effort we are finding a healthy number of non-nudists supporting nudism because its a lifestyle that really doesn't threaten society as a whole and we have been able to distance ourselves from the swinger life-style, which does. Now we are going to embrace the very lifestyle that has been the main impediment to nudism's acceptance. Do you think we are on such solid ground in Pasco County and elsewhere that we can withstand the backlash? If you do I have some swampland in Alaska I want to sell you.
The Europeans are way ahead of us when it comes to public nudity, but they are not dumb enough to let the 2 mix. The nudist resorts I have been to outside the US are actually more strict than we are. I don't consider Hedonism, etc. nudist venues.
Disagreement does not mean dislike.
Bare Warrior
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Swinger lifestyle rules of engagement
