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Digital_Cowboy
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Posted - 09/28/2014 :  10:53:32 AM  Show Profile  Click to see Digital_Cowboy's MSN Messenger address  Send Digital_Cowboy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireProf

Just because I was a fireman, doesn’t mean I stop living or live by someone else’s rules, opinions or hang-ups. I live my life the way I want ... no matter what the consequences. I’ve worked side by side with city cops, sheriff deputies, Highway patrol officers ... they ALL said ... “we’ve got better things to do then go after someone driving naked, unless he/she is being lewd. Simply driving naked is not something I’d waste my time with.” SO ... with high profile vehicles with tinted windows ... I’m certain I won’t be seen. Because I was a firefighter and saw the effects of driving drunk; I don’t drink and drive, the effects of driving and texting; I don’t text and drive, driving while not paying attention; I always pay attention to what I’m doing while I drive and ... I obey the laws of the road while watching all those people that don’t obey the law, text while driving and I’ve done it all in the nude, sometimes. I’ve driven naked for over 30 years without incident. Could it happen? Sure. Will I live the rest of my life worried about it ... NO. Though I appreciate your opinion and concerns ... it’s not going to change my way of life or ... my naked driving.


I agree with that, but also when you were a fireman, you were held to a higher standard then the average person on the street. I guess you’re lucky in that regards. As trust me, as a cyclist I have personally had at least three “negative” encounters with LEOs and I wasn’t doing anything wrong. The first time I was on my home from a free concert when I had an off-duty traffic homicide cop pull me over. He started out with “You and your clubs need to learn. . .” (he probably started out like that as I wear spandex while cycling) changing mid-sentence to “I’m sick and tired of cleaning your brains off of the road.” The next time I was driving my bicycle to my girlfriends and there had been two cops in my apartment complex parking lot. One left before me, and the second one left after me. The first one pulled into the parking lot of a “farmer’s stand,” and the second one “followed” me in the second lane as I was in the outside lane. This was at about 2200hrs, and he gets on his PA system and tells me to either move further to the right or to get on the sidewalk. The last one happened last year at about this time. I was on my way out to the VA when a FHP officer hits his siren behind me. He pulls me over and proceeds to tell me things about the law that I new was wrong.

a) Such as since July of last year Florida law changed and the state of Florida no longer recognized the bicycle as a vehicle, wrong.
b) That on roads without a bike lane we HAVE to operate on the sidewalk, wrong.
c) That according to the FHP officer there was a black car that came close to hitting me.
a. IF that is true then why didn’t he stop that car for failure to maintain a safe distance?

And I have read plenty of articles where LEOs, and the courts have dealt unfairly with cyclists. Look up Selz v Trotwood as an example. As I’ve said if I owned and drove a car I too would probably drive it nude. If for no other reason then as I’ve said, I do recall reading that one does have a similar expectation of privacy in their car. BUT also as I’ve said I recall reading articles posted not only here but at other nudist forums where people were simply going nude in their own home and have been arrested for doing so.

quote:
Originally posted by FireProf
Angie Harmon; before we can even start to debate her situation, we’d need facts ... more facts than what you’ve posted. She did the right thing by refusing to step outta the car and the officer was in the wrong to purposefully try to embarrass her by telling her to do so. “IF” I were naked when an officer came up to my window ... “IF” ... which I would not be, but I would wait until I have shorts on and he/she will just have to wait. I can argue that when I get into court and I’m not afraid of going to court to argue that my driving nude is NOT against the law and that I was doing nothing lewd or wrong.


Sadly, I do not remember much about it other then she was at a party or some sort of function, and spilled something on herself, and instead of driving in her soiled and I seem to recall ants being involved pants. She elected to remove them place them in her trunk and drive in just her panties. Which technically would mean that she wasn’t “nude.” She was simply wearing her panties. And as I am sure we all know most panties DO in fact cover more of a woman then the average bathing suit. So she should have been well covered with just her panties.

Again, trust me as a cyclist and having read far TOO many articles where cyclists were NOT doing anything wrong other then driving the vehicle of their choice on public roads. Besides the Selz v Trotwood case there is the case of a woman up in Ky who at first was ticketed for violating Ky statutes because unlike most states that say cyclists have to operate as FRAP (far right as practicable) on the roadway, Ky uses the word highway instead of roadway. A roadway is defined as the space between the fog lines and the highway is defined as the entire surface that includes the shoulder. Again in most states we as cyclists are not required to operate in the shoulder. Ky is an exception to that and she was stopped for not operating in the shoulder.

Sadly, she has since been arrested for continuing to operate outside of the shoulder. Her argument is that the shoulder where she was stopped isn’t safe or practicable for a cyclist. The cop on the scene, the judge and the DA didn’t agree with her. And she lost, it didn’t help her case that at the time that she was stopped the LEO was able to record other cyclists who were willing to risk not only their equipment but their safety by going through a debris field that she had avoided.

So trust me despite what the LEOs you’ve worked with have told you. There ARE plenty of LEOs out there who will stop anyone for the littlest thing whether they’re a true violation of the law or not.

quote:
Originally posted by FireProf
If this is the attitude that some nudist have ... the best place for them is inside their homes, windows and doors closed and maybe ... practice nudism in their closets where no one might see them. But aren’t these types of nudists doing exactly what mainstream society wants? Keep in the in closet, we don’t wanna see it cuz it’s wrong, it’s dirty, it’s nasty. What we do and how we live is neither of those things and I refuse to keep my lifestyle contained in a closet, at home, when I can easily, safely, respectfully ... do it outside my home, in my private yard or in my vehicles and NOT expose myself to anyone other than those in the car with me.


Again, I completely agree that we should have the freedom to go nude anywhere that we want. But sadly that ISN’T the world that we live in. And yes, I would have to agree with you that they are doing what mainstream American society wants them to do.

Yes, again, I completely agree with you that how we have chosen to live is (to quote Jimmy Buffet) “is not nasty or obscene, it’s just a different way to live.”

It IS a shame that we do not have the freedom to truly live as we want, and that we are limited in where we can go nude. Which is why I’ve said it’d be nice if we could convince grocery stores, malls, department stores, etc. to once a month or even better once a week to host a day or night where customers were allowed to come in and go nude while they shopped or watched a movie or dined.

And again, the ONLY reason I brought this up is because I DO recall reading plenty of other posts in other threads where some members posting about engaging in similar activities had gotten for want of a better word “flamed” for their activities and being accused of being an exhibitionist whether it was true or not. And again, as a cyclist as well as being a nudist I am a member of two groups that “mainstream” America looks down on and thinks should just “grow up” and act like everyone else.

I enjoy both nudism AND cycling and have no plans on giving up either.

quote:
Originally posted by FireProf


Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



Live Long and Prosper
Herman



Edited by - Digital_Cowboy on 09/28/2014 11:59:58 AM

Country: USA | Posts: 310 Go to Top of Page

Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member


Posted - 09/28/2014 :  11:13:28 AM  Show Profile  Click to see Digital_Cowboy's MSN Messenger address  Send Digital_Cowboy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireProf

The wrong cop? Hell ... the wrong cop may just shoot your naked butt while you’re in the drivers seat. You could get hit by a bus crossing the street ... life is full of risks. Some limit theirs, others have no limitations ... driving naked truly is somewhere in between, if you really think about it.

I took bigger risks for 32 years in my profession than simply driving naked.



Lots of nudists before us ... took risks so we could have nude beaches, nude clubs, resorts ... places in national parks, state parks ... if we never took risks, many things we have today, nude and non nude, would not exist. There are those that are willing to take risks for certain things... and then there are those that will not take any risks but are willing to allow those others to take those risks and benefit from the risks they took.

Risks like being open about one’s lifestyle, one’s affiliation with nudist organizations, clubs, resorts, groups. Where would we be without risks?

Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



FireProf,

I completely agree with you, all one has to do is to follow the news to see how innocent and unarmed individuals have been tackled, shot, tased by law enforcement. There was a case recently down here in Florida where a woman was tackled and brutally beaten a LEO. She sued and has won a large settlement.

NOT to minimize the risks that you took as a firefighter, but I think that you’d agree that being a soldier is by magnitudes more risky.

Again, I agree with you. IF it wasn’t for those who came before us we wouldn’t have the resorts and clubs that we have. And again, I agree where would we be without risks, or those who are willing to take risks. But people need to weigh the risks against the benefits or the repercussions.

Live Long and Prosper
Herman



Country: USA | Posts: 310 Go to Top of Page

Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member


Posted - 09/28/2014 :  11:43:48 AM  Show Profile  Click to see Digital_Cowboy's MSN Messenger address  Send Digital_Cowboy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireProf

You’re trying to make your argument with huge generalities. The cops gotta be bored to do what you say ... OR ... you made them suspicious by doing something out of the ordinary. Either way ... depending on where you live, a small town to a large city ... cops act differently in all those places. Not all cops stop everyone for no reason. Maybe if I lived in a small town, I’d be more concerned but I don’t and I’m not concerned that I’ll get pulled over for no reason. IF I do ... I know I have plenty of time to slip on shorts.


No, as I’ve said repeatedly the reason for my question(s) is because I DO recall seeing posts from others engaging in similar activities getting “flamed” for doing so. And it seems as if driving nude is along the same lines. So I was trying to gather information on why there is a difference between driving nude and some of the other things that members here have done in the past that have gotten them “flamed.”

The ONLY thing that I was doing is driving my bicycle in the travel lane just like the operators of every other vehicle on the road. When as I’ve said at first an off-duty traffic homicide cop pulls me over, then later at around 2200hrs I was going to my girlfriends on a multilane road when a cop in the second lane got on his PA system and ordered me to either move further to the right i.e. in the gutter pan, or to get on the sidewalk. And the most recent I was again on a multilane road (actually all of my encounters have happened on a multilane road while I was in the outside lane and there was plenty of room and time for motorists coming up behind me to safely change lanes to pass me) I was going to the VA when a FHP officer pulled me over. As I’ve already said in a pervious post in this thread EVERYTHING that he told me was absolutely WRONG. When I tried to explain to him what the law actually said he accused me of “arguing” with him. And even though he only gave me a verbal warning he said that the next time I got “caught” driving my bicycle in the travel lane that I could be arrested for doing so, again he was flat out wrong.

The ONLY thing that I was doing when I was pulled over was driving my bicycle in the travel lane. Sadly to many that is an even more heinous “crime” then wanting to enjoy life in the nude.

quote:
Originally posted by FireProf
I was, in fact, a Fire Captain. I don’t have to prove that to you or anyone else ... anymore than you need to prove to us that you did NOTHING for the cops to pull you over.


No you don’t, and I never said that you did. I didn’t, and as I said the ONLY thing that I was doing was operating my bicycle in the travel lane obeying the same laws/rules as the operator of any other vehicle. Which sadly as I have said above to many is a “heinous crime.”

quote:
Originally posted by FireProf
IF you don’t agree with driving nude ... Don’t Do It!! It’s really that simple. But spouting off about the “what if’s” is not a valid enough argument to keep me or any of the others from doing it. It doesn’t affect you, it doesn’t affect nudism ... and any argument to that affect is bogus and unjustified. What I do does not affect your way of life or the nudism you chose to live. I drive naked for me and my wife ... no one else. I’ve taken the steps I need to do so, so that I’m not seen by anyone else. I’m always prepared to slip on something in any case. If I were involved in an accident ... the last thing I’ll be worried about is if I’m naked. I hope I’m not injured severely. The paramedics would only cut my clothes off anyway! Hahaha


As I said, IF I owned and drove a car I probably would also drive nude as well. And again, the only reason for my question is because as I have said I DO recall other members getting “flamed” for similar activities. And based on not only my experiences on a bicycle but that of countless others, they are not just “what ifs” they are facts. As I have said plenty of cyclists have been not only harassed but arrested by LEOs and their only “crime” is that they were operating their bicycles in the travel lane with the rest of traffic.

Actually, ironically a few years ago I was involved in a single vehicle crash on my bicycle. And once I was in the back of the ambulance I remember (it’s one of the things that I remember from that night. That one of the EMTs asked if he could cut off my jersey. I told him no, and he didn’t. The thing that I wished that they HAD listened to me about was where they took me. As both myself and the friends that I was out with that night had told the ambulance crew to take me to the local VA. Instead they took me to a civilian hospital. The ER staff at the VA didn’t understand why I wasn’t transported to the VA as they were open and receiving patients.

quote:
Originally posted by FireProf
Some of you that have this hang up about those of us that drive naked, try and do so by stating all these things that you think we do ... but in reality ... you don’t have a clue as to what it is we do and what preparations we make or precautions we take. Maybe you can’t put your shorts on quick enough. Maybe you’ve been stopped for absolutely nothing, maybe you’re not a risk taker ... all that is fine, for you. Not for some of us.


As I’ve said, I do not have a hang up about it and if I owned a car I too would probably drive nude as well. It’s just that as I’ve aid I DO recall other members getting “flamed” for engaging in similar activities and I wanted to know why this behavior is acceptable and the other isn’t.

quote:
Originally posted by FireProf


Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



Live Long and Prosper
Herman



Country: USA | Posts: 310 Go to Top of Page

FireProf
Forum Member


Posted - 09/28/2014 :  12:49:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I've stated ... I appreciate and respect your opinions ... but they are your opinions and they will not deter me from driving naked ... regardless of your examples or other non nude driving nudists examples of what might happen.

What I find offensive and unfounded is the fact that simply driving nude is seen as exhibitionism by so called nudists. That same example could be used at a nude beach, club or resort ... regardless of the remoteness, all the gates and walls ... I could make that same argument about exhibitionism in those locals but ... some of you seem to think because we are in our cars/trucks/motorhomes ... we are somehow exhibitionists simply because we drive naked and what might happen. Not buying it and that's all I've got to say on this matter because we are now beating a dead horse.

Lastly ... until you've done it, until you've driven a mile in the seat of "MY" vehicles to see what "I've" done to prevent anyone from seeing me/us ... you'll never understand what driving naked is or what it means to some of us that use it as an extension of our nude lives at home. It harms no one, it does nothing negative to you ortowards nudism and ... don't even get me started on cyclists! LOL



Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



Edited by - FireProf on 09/28/2014 12:52:23 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 2774 Go to Top of Page

Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member


Posted - 09/28/2014 :  3:04:39 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Digital_Cowboy's MSN Messenger address  Send Digital_Cowboy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireProf

As I’ve stated ... I appreciate and respect your opinions ... but they are your opinions and they will not deter me from driving naked ... regardless of your examples or other non-nude driving nudists examples of what might happen.

What I find offensive and unfounded is the fact that simply driving nude is seen as exhibitionism by so called nudists. That same example could be used at a nude beach, club or resort ... regardless of the remoteness, all the gates and walls ... I could make that same argument about exhibitionism in those locals but ... some of you seem to think because we are in our cars/trucks/motorhomes ... we are somehow exhibitionists simply because we drive naked and what might happen. Not buying it and that’s all I’ve got to say on this matter because we are now beating a dead horse.

Lastly ... until you’ve done it, until you’ve driven a mile in the seat of “MY” vehicles to see what “I’ve” done to prevent anyone from seeing me/us ... you’ll never understand what driving naked is or what it means to some of us that use it as an extension of our nude lives at home. It harms no one, it does nothing negative to you or towards nudism and ... don’t even get me started on cyclists! LOL



Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



FireProf,

As I have said, if I owned and drove a car I too would quite probably drive nude as well. And as I said the only reason I asked my question was to find out why one behavior is acceptable and another very similar behavior isn’t. That’s it, nothing more.

I was not trying to judge anyone for their actions whether at home, at the resort, beach or in their car. I was simply trying to learn why as I’ve said one behavior is acceptable and another similar behavior isn’t.

If you would be willing, I would be interested in hearing your opinion on cyclists in private exchange. I will say that we cyclists have just as much right to be on the road as anyone else. Sadly, not everyone, that includes LEOs, judges, and DAs for the most part as well as the average motorist do not get that. Also sadly, on the rare occasion that we are lucky enough that a judge who is also a cyclist hears a case involving a cyclist cops and DAs have been upset accusing the judge of being biased against in favor of cyclists. The irony is that they have no problem when a judge is biased against us.

Live Long and Prosper
Herman



Edited by - Digital_Cowboy on 09/28/2014 3:44:07 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 310 Go to Top of Page

FireProf
Forum Member


Posted - 09/28/2014 :  3:22:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy

quote:
Originally posted by FireProf

As I’ve stated ... I appreciate and respect your opinions ... but they are your opinions and they will not deter me from driving naked ... regardless of your examples or other non-nude driving nudists examples of what might happen.

What I find offensive and unfounded is the fact that simply driving nude is seen as exhibitionism by so called nudists. That same example could be used at a nude beach, club or resort ... regardless of the remoteness, all the gates and walls ... I could make that same argument about exhibitionism in those locals but ... some of you seem to think because we are in our cars/trucks/motorhomes ... we are somehow exhibitionists simply because we drive naked and what might happen. Not buying it and that’s all I’ve got to say on this matter because we are now beating a dead horse.

Lastly ... until you’ve done it, until you’ve driven a mile in the seat of “MY” vehicles to see what “I’ve” done to prevent anyone from seeing me/us ... you’ll never understand what driving naked is or what it means to some of us that use it as an extension of our nude lives at home. It harms no one, it does nothing negative to you or towards nudism and ... don’t even get me started on cyclists! LOL



Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



FireProf,

As I have said, if I owned and drove a car I too would quite probably drive nude as well. And as I said the only reason I asked my question was to find out why one behavior is acceptable and another very similar behavior isn’t. That’s it, nothing more.

I was not trying to judge anyone for their actions whether at home, at the resort, beach or in their car. I was simply trying to learn why as I’ve said one behavior is acceptable and another similar behavior isn’t.

If you would be willing, I would be interested in hearing your opinion on cyclists in private exchange. I will say that we cyclists have just as much right to be on the road as anyone else. Sadly, not everyone, that includes LEOs, judges, and DAs for the most part as well as the average motorist do not get that. Also sadly, on the rare occasion that we are lucky enough that a judge who is also a cyclist hears a case involving a cyclist cops and DAs have been upset accusing the judge of being biased against cyclists. The irony is that they have no problem when a judge is biased against us.

Live Long and Prosper
Herman



I'm not aware of the flaming you are speaking of. What are the specifics?

My opinions on cyclists are plain and simple; they are entitled to use the road as a motor vehicle. We share the road with them whenever they are present. What I do not agree with is that they (cyclists) want a vehicle to share the road with a cycle but on many, many, many occasions ... the cyclists will not obey the rules of the road! That's where my rub is.

Now in comparison so we're not off topic ... are ALL cyclists like this? NO and I'd never make that comparison. Are ALL naked drivers exhibitionists? Absolutely not and it's as offensive to a nudist that drives naked and is not being lewd ... to be thought of or labeled an exhibitionist ... just as it would be to label all cyclists as breakers of the rules of the road.



Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



Edited by - FireProf on 09/28/2014 3:23:17 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 2774 Go to Top of Page

Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member


Posted - 09/28/2014 :  3:57:57 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Digital_Cowboy's MSN Messenger address  Send Digital_Cowboy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireProf

quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy

quote:
Originally posted by FireProf

As I’ve stated ... I appreciate and respect your opinions ... but they are your opinions and they will not deter me from driving naked ... regardless of your examples or other non-nude driving nudists examples of what might happen.

What I find offensive and unfounded is the fact that simply driving nude is seen as exhibitionism by so called nudists. That same example could be used at a nude beach, club or resort ... regardless of the remoteness, all the gates and walls ... I could make that same argument about exhibitionism in those locals but ... some of you seem to think because we are in our cars/trucks/motorhomes ... we are somehow exhibitionists simply because we drive naked and what might happen. Not buying it and that’s all I’ve got to say on this matter because we are now beating a dead horse.

Lastly ... until you’ve done it, until you’ve driven a mile in the seat of “MY” vehicles to see what “I’ve” done to prevent anyone from seeing me/us ... you’ll never understand what driving naked is or what it means to some of us that use it as an extension of our nude lives at home. It harms no one, it does nothing negative to you or towards nudism and ... don’t even get me started on cyclists! LOL



Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



FireProf,

As I have said, if I owned and drove a car I too would quite probably drive nude as well. And as I said the only reason I asked my question was to find out why one behavior is acceptable and another very similar behavior isn’t. That’s it, nothing more.


I was not trying to judge anyone for their actions whether at home, at the resort, beach or in their car. I was simply trying to learn why as I’ve said one behavior is acceptable and another similar behavior isn’t.

If you would be willing, I would be interested in hearing your opinion on cyclists in private exchange. I will say that we cyclists have just as much right to be on the road as anyone else. Sadly, not everyone, that includes LEOs, judges, and DAs for the most part as well as the average motorist do not get that. Also sadly, on the rare occasion that we are lucky enough that a judge who is also a cyclist hears a case involving a cyclist cops and DAs have been upset accusing the judge of being biased against cyclists. The irony is that they have no problem when a judge is biased against us.

Live Long and Prosper
Herman



I'm not aware of the flaming you are speaking of. What are the specifics?

My opinions on cyclists are plain and simple; they are entitled to use the road as a motor vehicle. We share the road with them whenever they are present. What I do not agree with is that they (cyclists) want a vehicle to share the road with a cycle but on many, many, many occasions ... the cyclists will not obey the rules of the road! That's where my rub is.

Now in comparison so we're not off topic ... are ALL cyclists like this? NO and I'd never make that comparison. Are ALL naked drivers exhibitionists? Absolutely not and it's as offensive to a nudist that drives naked and is not being lewd ... to be thought of or labeled an exhibitionist ... just as it would be to label all cyclists as breakers of the rules of the road.



Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



FireProf,

Sadly, at the moment I cannot remember the specifics, as it has been a few years since I was last active here. I do however remember that there was a “faction” for want of a better word that was VERY outspoken about what a “true” nudist is or was. And IF anyone dared to suggest anything that ran contrary to their way of thinking was “attacked.”

On that I fully agree with you. When I am on the road on my bicycle I always signal when I am changing lanes, or turning, or stopping. I do not run red lights, or stop signs. And it gets to me when I see other cyclists engaging in those behaviors. As sadly, whether they realize it or not they are hurting all cyclists by their actions.

Agreed, no, not all cyclists behave that way a good many know how to share the road as well as how to obey the laws/rules of the road. And as I hope I have made clear to you by now I personally do not have a problem with people driving nude. Nor do I see them as being “exhibitionists.” But sadly I think that we can agree that there ARE some people who ARE driving nude for the “wrong” reasons, i.e. they ARE trying get a specific response or reaction out of others.

That doesn’t mean that everyone driving nude is doing so for the same reason(s). I would hope that most are driving nude for the reasons that have been spelled out here. As I’ve said as a comparison, the reason a large number of cyclists where spandex is for comfort as regular street clothes have seams, rivets, pinch points where one does NOT want to be rubbed raw. Does that make us “exhibitionists? No, it doesn’t it makes us practical, although I am sure that there are some who might see it that way. And sadly, as I think you’ll agree no amount of discussion is going to change their mind.

P.S.

For me on my bicycle wearing spandex is as close as I can come to riding nude. So I do understand the freedom of driving nude.

Live Long and Prosper
Herman



Country: USA | Posts: 310 Go to Top of Page

gnarlyoldman
Forum Member

Posted - 09/28/2014 :  5:12:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy

But sadly I think that we can agree that there ARE some people who ARE driving nude for the “wrong” reasons, i.e. they ARE trying get a specific response or reaction out of others.




I'm not sure I agree. I am not sure that there is a "wrong" reason to be naked.

My observation is that the more people see naked human beings without suffering serious physical or economic harm, the more acceptable it becomes for people to see naked human beings. The more often naked people are seen, the more quickly the culture will accept naked people. That is true no matter what reason the naked person has for being naked.

There are some "wrong" behaviors that are wrong whether naked or clothed.

Is there a "wrong" reason to be naked? I'm not sure I could come up with one. But I can think of many wrong reasons to be clothed.


Naked is green.



Country: USA | Posts: 239 Go to Top of Page

FireProf
Forum Member


Posted - 09/28/2014 :  8:09:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy As I’ve said as a comparison, the reason a large number of cyclists where spandex is for comfort as regular street clothes have seams, rivets, pinch points where one does NOT want to be rubbed raw. Does that make us “exhibitionists? No, it doesn’t it makes us practical, although I am sure that there are some who might see it that way. And sadly, as I think you’ll agree no amount of discussion is going to change their mind.

P.S.

For me on my bicycle wearing spandex is as close as I can come to riding nude. So I do understand the freedom of driving nude.

Live Long and Prosper
Herman




I wear spandex when we walk. yeah ... my penis and scrotum are more visible in spandex but I don't worry about that. I walk/jog in spandex because it eliminates chaffing between my thighs.

If someone said something to me about wearing spandex I'd answer ... "I could run naked ... would that be okay? Maybe you should keep your eyes on the road and not my genital area." I'm covered and the spandex works best for me and my wife when we walk. At times our genital area is more pronounced ... but we are covered and that's what should count, while out in the neighborhood.



Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



Country: USA | Posts: 2774 Go to Top of Page

Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member


Posted - 09/28/2014 :  9:18:09 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Digital_Cowboy's MSN Messenger address  Send Digital_Cowboy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gnarlyoldman

quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy

But sadly I think that we can agree that there ARE some people who ARE driving nude for the “wrong” reasons, i.e. they ARE trying get a specific response or reaction out of others.




I’m not sure I agree. I am not sure that there is a “wrong” reason to be naked.

My observation is that the more people see naked human beings without suffering serious physical or economic harm, the more acceptable it becomes for people to see naked human beings. The more often naked people are seen, the more quickly the culture will accept naked people. That is true no matter what reason the naked person has for being naked.

There are some “wrong” behaviors that are wrong whether naked or clothed.

Is there a “wrong” reason to be naked? I’m not sure I could come up with one. But I can think of many wrong reasons to be clothed.


Naked is green.



Gnarly,

Generally speaking I would have to agree with you. If it is done for the “shock” factor I do not think that that is the right reason to nude. And in the long run IMHO is only going to serve to hurt social nudism.

I think that we can however agree that despite taught responses to seeing someone nude, i.e. the “standard” at around 10 - 12 years of age (give or take) you can’t see little Janey down the street if she isn’t wearing at least a bathing suit/you can’t see little Jimmy down the street if he isn’t wearing at least a bathing suit. That “logic” has always escaped me, as absolutely NOTHING ever happens to a child no matter the age when they’ve seen a member of either the opposite or same sex nude.

How is a child harmed in anyway by seeing another human being nude, believe it or not on the “old” Showtime show (I think it was Showtime) Penn and Teller BS. They did a show on America’s obsession over female breasts. They had a lawyer who sadly, and clearly didn’t know the law. She said that if a woman walked down the street in NY (state or city) without a shirt she could get arrested. She also tried to say that a child seeing a woman’s bare breasts is as harmed by the mere sight of a breast or pair of breasts as a child how has had sex with an adult. When I heard that I really had to not only shake my head but also do a faceplant into my hands. HOW in the world can anyone reach adulthood and still think that?!?

Live Long and Prosper
Herman



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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member


Posted - 09/28/2014 :  9:32:11 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Digital_Cowboy's MSN Messenger address  Send Digital_Cowboy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireProf
I wear spandex when we walk. yeah ... my penis and scrotum are more visible in spandex but I don’t worry about that. I walk/jog in spandex because it eliminates chaffing between my thighs.

If someone said something to me about wearing spandex I’d answer ... “I could run naked ... would that be okay? Maybe you should keep your eyes on the road and not my genital area.” I’m covered and the spandex works best for me and my wife when we walk. At times our genital area is more pronounced ... but we are covered and that’s what should count, while out in the neighborhood.



Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



FireProf,

I think that the spandex for walking and for cycling are designed differently. As cycling spandex has padding, but it can still be revealing.

I don’t/hope no one will. As no one has ever said anything to me about wearing a spandex bike kit, and I’ve gone into stores, wearing just my spandex. Depending on where I’m going I’ll carry a change of clothes for when I get there. But usually I just carry the mountain bike over shorts.

Live Long and Prosper
Herman



Country: USA | Posts: 310 Go to Top of Page

FireProf
Forum Member


Posted - 09/29/2014 :  03:00:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yes ... I'm well aware of the difference between the spandex I wear and the spandex bike riders wear. I see the bike riders every morning at the coffee shop. the kind I wear are different and one pair is thin enough that I always wear a pair of shorts over them because they do reveal more than the others do.

there are many bike riders here in our city and they go wherever they'd like without any problems. I honestly think that the spandex is very much less an issue with people, than the bike shoes that clack as you walk ... like wearing taps on your shoes.



Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



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gnarlyoldman
Forum Member

Posted - 09/29/2014 :  10:15:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy

That “logic” has always escaped me, as absolutely NOTHING ever happens to a child no matter the age when they’ve seen a member of either the opposite or same sex nude.




Well. Something might happen, but it happens because adults create trauma, not because a human being was seen. One day when I was about 3 or 4 years old some other neighbor women came over to visit my mother. While the ladies had coffee in the house we children were turned lose in the back yard. There was another boy maybe 1 year older than me and a girl maybe a year younger. Out behind the garage we boys talked the younger girl into pulling down her pants/diaper. We were curious about what a girl looked like down there. Just about then my mother came out to check on us and threw a screaming fit. The other mothers took their kids home and I was sent to my room. It was a traumatic experience that I still remember many decades later.

It all happened so fast we never even got a good look at the girl. But absolutely NOTHING happened to her or us because we saw her naked. Lots of fear and shame happened because adults screamed and had a fit.



quote:

How is a child harmed in anyway by seeing another human being nude,

Herman




Good question. The most important occupation of children is learning all the knowledge and experience they will soon need to be functional adults. Children spend much of their time learning by observation of normal functional adults humans engaged in normal adult behavior.

Preventing children from observing normal adults defeats their ability to learn about human bodies and deprives them of normal educational experiences. Depriving children of information and experiences is defeating their learning and is harmful to children.

Children are not harmed by seeing human beings, but rather are harmed by being prevented from seeing and watching human bodies and normal human activities.



Naked is green.



Edited by - gnarlyoldman on 09/29/2014 10:52:46 AM

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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member


Posted - 09/29/2014 :  3:19:21 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Digital_Cowboy's MSN Messenger address  Send Digital_Cowboy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireProf

yes ... I’m well aware of the difference between the spandex I wear and the spandex bike riders wear. I see the bike riders every morning at the coffee shop. The kind I wear are different and one pair is thin enough that I always wear a pair of shorts over them because they do reveal more than the others do.

There are many bike riders here in our city and they go wherever they’d like without any problems. I honestly think that the spandex is very much less an issue with people, than the bike shoes that clack as you walk ... like wearing taps on your shoes.



Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



FireProf,

I thought so, I just wear the cycling spandex, but it makes sense that walking/workout spandex would be different. I can understand that, as I said depending on where I am going I usually carry a pair of mountain bike shorts to pull on over the spandex. I have been known that if I am just dropping off a book or two that I’ll go into the library in just my kit.

As I think I said, I do too, but I do carry a pair of mountain bike shorts just in case I go somewhere that I might need to cover up.

I know the type of cleat that you are talking about. I wear the SPD shoes where the cleat is recessed and doesn’t make much noise when I’m walking in them.

Live Long and Prosper
Herman



Country: USA | Posts: 310 Go to Top of Page

Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member


Posted - 09/29/2014 :  3:29:04 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Digital_Cowboy's MSN Messenger address  Send Digital_Cowboy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gnarlyoldman

quote:
Originally posted by Digital_Cowboy

That “logic” has always escaped me, as absolutely NOTHING ever happens to a child no matter the age when they’ve seen a member of either the opposite or same sex nude.



quote:
Originally posted by gnarlyoldman
Well. Something might happen, but it happens because adults create trauma, not because a human being was seen. One day when I was about 3 or 4 years old some other neighbor women came over to visit my mother. While the ladies had coffee in the house we children were turned lose in the back yard. There was another boy maybe 1 year older than me and a girl maybe a year younger. Out behind the garage we boys talked the younger girl into pulling down her pants/diaper. We were curious about what a girl looked like down there. Just about then my mother came out to check on us and threw a screaming fit. The other mothers took their kids home and I was sent to my room. It was a traumatic experience that I still remember many decades later.


Exactly, that is the point that I was trying to make. That just seeing another human being nude is not in anyway going to harm a child in anyway. However on the other hand how the adults around them react WILL as you’ve seen in your case can and will have lasting repercussions.

quote:
Originally posted by gnarlyoldman
It all happened so fast we never even got a good look at the girl. But absolutely NOTHING happened to her or us because we saw her naked. Lots of fear and shame happened because adults screamed and had a fit.


Exactly, and even if you had gotten a “good” look at her, nothing would have.

quote:

How is a child harmed in anyway by seeing another human being nude,

Herman



[quote]Originally posted by gnarlyoldman
Good question. The most important occupation of children is learning all the knowledge and experience they will soon need to be functional adults. Children spend much of their time learning by observation of normal functional adults humans engaged in normal adult behavior.

Preventing children from observing normal adults defeats their ability to learn about human bodies and deprives them of normal educational experiences. Depriving children of information and experiences is defeating their learning and is harmful to children.

Children are not harmed by seeing human beings, but rather are harmed by being prevented from seeing and watching human bodies and normal human activities.



Naked is green.



Exactly, the same goes for those in the various erection threads, claiming “think of the children” or “do you want your grandmother to see that?” Again, the children if they see an erection are only going to react as the adults around them react. If the adults don’t overreact then the children aren’t going to be harmed. But if on the other hand IF the adults overreact and make a big deal out of then as a result of that they can end up being scared as sadly you were in your innocent game of “show me yours and I’ll show you mine.”

Had you all figured out which little boy would have shown her his?

Live Long and Prosper
Herman



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