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 Nudism and Children / The Law Concerning Children
 Mandated Reporter???
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Author Previous Topic: Nudist denied visits with grandchildren Topic Next Topic: What is appropriate with young step-kids around?
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jeanluc
Forum Member


Posted - 03/01/2008 :  5:45:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My wife and I just had a session with a marriage counselor (partially due to my wife being very disagreeable with my decision to be nude - see my other posts on this.)
Anyway, the psychotherapist said that he hoped I was not nude around our three year old grandson that lives with his mom in our basement. I asked why and he said that as a "mandated reporter" if he thought I was, he would have to call Social Services and have them investigate it.
I asked him 'So, if we take him into the shower with us to get him clean, he would have to report us' He said he did not want to know about it because he would have to.
I told him that there have been studies by psychologists that prove that casual nudity in the home is not harmful and he said he would have to see it before he would believe it.
So the quacks are out there. How did the world (or maybe just the US world) get so screwed up that a mandated reporter thinks that casual family nudity is abuse?
In another post someone mentioned that most counselors would see no problem and help the people adjust to the situation and see that there is nothing wrong. They mentioned that anyone else is just a quack and I tend now to agree with them about this guy.
What can you tell me about the "mandated reporter" process and nudism. My wife tells me that when she went to that training many, many years ago they were told to be aware of people who have a nudist lifestyle. She doesn't remember what if anything they were required to do if they did come across such a family.
Obviously I won't mention the grandson or nudism again. I am really even debating about going back to him for our marriage counseling, but I really don't want to start over with another one for that.

Jeanluc

Live - Laugh - Love

Country: USA | Posts: 50

Cheri
Forum Member


Posted - 03/02/2008 :  1:43:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeanluc, I know nothing about the mandated reporter process, but I do have some good studies you can rebuff the system with (posted below). Also, if you're a member of AANR, they can and do offer some assistance.
Cheri
There have been a number of studies regarding children & nudism.

Marilyn Story, in the Journal of Psychology, Vol. 118, first Half,
Sept. 1984 "Comparisons of Body Self-Concept between Social Nudists & Nonnudists"

Marilyn Story, in Jour. of Social Psychology, 1979, 108, 49-56 "Factors
Associated w/More Positive Body Self-Concepts in Preschool children"

Robin Lewis & Louis Janda, in The Relationship Between Adult Sexual
Adjustment & Childhood Experiences Regarding Exposure to Nudity,
Sleeping in the Parental Bed, &Parental Attitudes Toward Sexuality, Arch. of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 17, No.4, 1988

Marilyn Story in "A Comparison of Social Nudists & Non-nudists on
Experience w/Various Sexual Outlets" Journ. of Sex Research, Vol. 23, No. 2, pp
197-211, May 1987

Mary S. Calderone, M.D., in "The Family Book About Sexuality," states:
" ... with very young children accustomed from the beginning to nudity in
themselves and their parents, a great deal is taken for granted, and it
doesn't seem to be much of an issue to them. What nudity does is make it
easy for children to become absolutely certain about just how men and
women are made. This knowledge is of great importance in assuring the child of his or her own correct gender. The differences in body states and sizes - and in body organs - can then be taken for granted and will provide an accurate image of how they themselves, or the opposite sex, will look when grown up. Children whose parents feel at ease in such natural events as stepping out of the shower, toweling, and walking back to their room to dress are fortunate."

A suggested book is GROWING UP WITHOUT SHAME by Dennis Craig Smith,
ISBN 1-55599-001-0


Doing what I can to positively promote nudism
-
-



Country: USA | Posts: 3519 Go to Top of Page

kangaroo
Forum Member


Posted - 03/02/2008 :  3:11:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Since a mandated reporter is required by law to report any event that they perceive as child abuse or negligence, this therapist obviously considers nudity as one of those things.

If you still want to be nude, and you are going to a therapist to help your wife understand this, I think it would be better if you had a therapist that understood your feelings as well as hers.



Country: USA | Posts: 55 Go to Top of Page

jeanluc
Forum Member


Posted - 03/02/2008 :  4:32:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Cheri for the list. I have done some Google searches and came up with this blog which has some internal links to a few of these articles. It is:

http://academicnaturist.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-about-children.html

I am going to try to forward these to the psychotherapist, though I doubt it will make any difference.
I am still trying to find out what rules, if any govern the mandated reporter.

Jeanluc

Live - Laugh - Love



Country: USA | Posts: 50 Go to Top of Page

prism2525
Forum Member


Posted - 03/03/2008 :  10:22:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
a bit off topic but while reading a part of the "205 reasons in support of naturism," I came across the statement where it shows how women are forced (by culture) to cover their breasts while a topless man wouldn't even be noticed.

Equality between sexes my hat...

____________________________________________________________________________________________

"If God had intended mankind to run around naked, surely we'd have been born that way!"

oh, wait.... :D



Edited by - Moderator on 03/03/2008 10:40:23 AM

Country: Malta | Posts: 102 Go to Top of Page

go n nude
Forum Member


Posted - 03/03/2008 :  11:23:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mandated Reporter although i am Canadian, so many of our laws and protocol are very similar to the US some call this the 52nd state. When any child is involved the person or professional is bound by Law (very serious) they must report to child protective services or the Law any details which they feel, may have any impact at all, on the childs well being.Hospitals,Doctors even Schools must report any suspicion,regardless and immediately without delay.Its a crime if they dont. Children have rights and anyone could be libel to serious civil/Law if they don't.

go n nude



Country: Canada | Posts: 415 Go to Top of Page

Admin
Forum Admin


Posted - 03/05/2008 :  7:02:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You may find these materials useful:

"Mere nudity" in front of children

"Mere nudity" in front of children refers to this Supreme Court case, THE CHAD MERRILL SMITH CASE, 1972, relied on by all family nudists:

"From the foregoing definitions and cases the rule clearly emerges that a person does not expose his private parts 'lewdly' within the meaning of section 314 unless his conduct is sexually motivated. Accordingly, a conviction of that offense requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the actor not only meant to expose himself, but intended by his conduct to direct public attention to his genitals for purposes of sexual arousal, gratification, or affront."
http://www.nudebeachalliance.org/law/smith.pdf

Another case referring to children at nudist camps being acceptable in the Court of Appeals in Oregon:
http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/A108676.htm

Time Magazine's incredible report on the Foley investigation, Lake Como, and AANR's Youth Camp being held there:

"...It was perfectly legal under Florida law, which like most other state codes doesn't prohibit anyone of any age from being naked at home, in locker rooms, at nudist resorts or in any other areas where nudity is expected. Lewd behavior is outlawed in public and private, say Florida legal experts, but not mere nudity."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,460225,00.html



Country: USA | Posts: 1774 Go to Top of Page

CAPTAIN_JAMES
Forum Member


Posted - 03/05/2008 :  10:40:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Admin, was that last reference to the Foley Investigation, the same Foley as in United States House of Representatives Mark Foley and the teenage boy pages? Just wondering, nice to know WHO has our backs.


Country: USA | Posts: 45 Go to Top of Page

Admin
Forum Admin


Posted - 03/06/2008 :  12:16:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yup, that Foley.


Country: USA | Posts: 1774 Go to Top of Page

Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member


Posted - 03/07/2008 :  11:17:42 PM  Show Profile  Click to see Digital_Cowboy's MSN Messenger address  Send Digital_Cowboy a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, where does this "mandated reporting" end? What if the "shrink" on question is deeply religious and the person/family that they're seeing/treating are atheists? And they're raising their children as atheists? Or there Wiccans/pagans/druids who are raising their children as Wiccans/pagans/druids? Will said "shrink" report them for that?

When did this "mandated reporting" start? How many states and which ones require this "mandated reporting?" What exactly is the law and what are the requirements for this "mandated reporting?" Isn't it more likely to cause more problems and trauma then it'll prevent?

Bottom line, what's to keep a "shrink" from imposing his/her morals/views on someone else? Or blackmailing people into doing what they want them to do by threatening them with "mandated reporting?"

Live Long and Prosper
Herman



Country: USA | Posts: 310 Go to Top of Page

CAPTAIN_JAMES
Forum Member


Posted - 03/07/2008 :  11:30:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But with THAT Foley, I don't think I'd want him behind me. LOL


Country: USA | Posts: 45 Go to Top of Page

go n nude
Forum Member


Posted - 03/08/2008 :  11:47:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ditital Cowboy, good questions! In the US i think its Federal/State law for Child protection from Abuse/neglect.I would hope anyone knowing of such would report such information for the sake of the Victim, if one hears/suspects/sees possible harm.I don't think raising a child in Nudism/religious beliefs is abuse unless the child is forced unwilling to participate and suffers trauma. The protection laws are to ensure child welfare and safety from abuse a crime. If one does nothing thats a crime. Professionals knowing of such, risk their livelihood if they don't report information to child protective services if believe/suspect/know of such abuse/neglect.
They report, CPS investigates, and takes any action they decide nessessary, to ensure the child's welfare and protection from harm.

go n nude



Country: Canada | Posts: 415 Go to Top of Page

WyldspringNudist
Forum Member

Posted - 03/08/2008 :  1:37:01 PM  Show Profile  Send WyldspringNudist an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I can tell you, as a Wiccan/Pagan/Druid couple who are nudists and plan on having children and raising them that way, my wife and I try to keep a low profile.


Country: USA | Posts: 20 Go to Top of Page

Darkhorse
Forum Member

Posted - 03/08/2008 :  11:55:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As a licensed teacher, I am a mandated reporter for child abuse. Neither state in which I have been licensed mentioned nudity as reason to suspect abuse - and as a nudist myself, I certainly know that it isn't!


Country: | Posts: 14 Go to Top of Page

Sunnmaxx
Forum Member

Posted - 04/11/2008 :  3:55:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Next time ask the theropist if he would have to report your wife taking the kid into the shower? There always seams to be a difference for women. He seams to be confused about the nudity=sex issue and since nudity is the reason you are seeing him, you may want to find one that has an understanding of naturalism.

Maxx



Country: | Posts: 11 Go to Top of Page

jeanluc
Forum Member


Posted - 04/17/2008 :  11:57:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have decided that we would not continue going to this therapist. Not only because of his misunderstanding of casual nudism, though that is part of it.
Since he said he had discussed family nudity with his supervisor and was told to report it if he found out we did it, I would doubt that it would be easy to find someone that has an understanding of nudism.
I have come to the understanding - through posts her and other forums, that trying to convince someone that is dead set against nudism (my wife especially) is not going to happen, nor should I push it. She either has to want it herself, accept it in me, or fight me over it. So far she has stopped fighting me - as long as I don't do anything other than shower and dress in front of our 3 yr old grandson.
I am not sure how far to push it and am waiting for her to initiate a discussion I requested on this very issue.

Peace,
Jeanluc

Live - Laugh - Love



Country: USA | Posts: 50 Go to Top of Page
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