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NaturistDoc
Forum Member


Posted - 10/31/2014 :  6:02:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In the past few months, I’ve had the opportunity to visit three of the homes in the Clothing-Optional Home Network. Specific reviews will have to wait, because I’ve been thinking about the Big Picture. I’m starting to think that the Network, or something similar, may be the wave of the future for a certain type of nudist/naturist.

Let’s face the ugly truth: Most nudist resorts in the US are mediocre at best. Their shortcomings are discussed at length on this forum and elsewhere, and the complaints tend to fall into a few familiar categories. For instance ...

Some resorts - hiding behind the euphemism “rustic” - have aging, decrepit facilities. (These resorts also tend to have an aging, decrepit clientele, but that’s another story.)

The owners/managers of some resorts come across as autocratic, unwelcoming, or just plain rude.

The “regulars” are clique-ish and regard visitors as second-class citizens.

Management often won’t deal appropriately with drunk or obnoxious people, particularly if they’re members of the resort.

Some of the not-so-rustic resorts cater to the party-hearty crowd or have gone over entirely to the lifestyle/swinger side.

I could go on. (My own biggest gripe is that while Europe, Mexico, and the Caribbean have resorts with nude beaches, there are none in the US.) My wife and I have stayed in eight different US resorts, and frankly, there is only one that we would go out of our way to visit again. With a very few exceptions, non-swinger resorts in the US are declining in quality and number. Who remembers the last time a new resort opened? Meanwhile, the AANR Bulletin predominantly features photos of flabby old white naked people. Nothing wrong with FOWNPs; I’m one myself. But if that is the majority of your membership, it does not bode well for the future of resort nudism.

So, why would you put up with lousy facilities, indifferent management, and annoying or creepy fellow-guests if there is a better alternative? I’m not saying that the Clothing-Optional Home Network is THE answer, but I do believe that they’re on to something. Their venues and their hosts all have their quirks, but on balance they are far more accommodating than your average resort, and the facilities are kept in much better shape. (After all, the hosts live there!) Sure, there are all sorts of financial and legal barriers to operating a C/O B&B, and it’s an open question whether that business model will succeed or not. And it’s not for everybody; some folks just gotta have their Disco Lingerie Night. But as the “traditional” nudist resorts continue their decline, it may well be the small-scale operations that pick up the slack.

Discuss.

Country: USA | Posts: 1054

FireProf
Forum Member


Posted - 12/17/2014 :  02:05:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with what you're saying Doc. CO Home is on another couple of sites I'm on and on one in particular, we had a similar conversation on what was needed to bring in more people of all groups and ages.

I think "our" biggest problem within the nudist/naturist community is that "traditional" nudists just don't want to spend the money. Those that visit the clubs and resorts in their current stages of "aging and decrepit" facilities, feel that that's good enough for them. Others won't visit these sites because of the condition of their property and amenities.

Those wanting to get naked and use a facility and have money to spend, aren't always the type of group/crowd you'd consider ... "traditional" nudists. Swingers have the cash ... maybe the majority of swingers are professionals that have the spendable income that "traditional" nudists don't or don't want to spread around. It's quite the conundrum.

I think a CO B&B has to have the right people and property to operate. I think I could do it ... the Prof wants no part of that. She doesn't care much for waiting on me! hahaha But seriously ... it takes special people to open up their home to strangers and mesh entertaining them, providing them with food, drink, snacks and knowing when to bug out and leave them alone to enjoy ... your home! hahaha

We've not had the opportunity to get to any of these properties. I'm hopeful that the very first one we visit will be CO Home's home. NO PROMISES CO Home. I'm always working on that trip to AZ and your place. I think it's a great way to travel, have a base to stay and then venture out to other places nearby or even visit the textile places and points of interest.

I'm just not sure how we blend the groups with all the money and those that don't want to spend the money, to keep these clubs and resorts open.

Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



Country: USA | Posts: 3175 Go to Top of Page

MrsAzLagoon
Forum Member


Posted - 12/17/2014 :  3:33:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit MrsAzLagoon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Doc and FP! I'm sure Clothing Optional Home Network is not THE answer to nudist/naturist destinations, but is simply an option. All of the points you made about traditional resorts are valid as well as the ones made about our locations. Every business/location has its own personality and people decide for themselves what is good and what isn't for them....where they will spend their discretionary funds and where they won't.

Our feeling is that there is a real void in the nudist destination market in the US for more upscale accommodations. The traditional resorts have their client base, more adult entertainment resorts have theirs...the unfortunate truth is that for those who want a more upscale experience, there simply aren't many places in the US for them to go! And for those people, they give up looking because the only upscale accommodations seem to be at the lifestyle resorts! We spend quite a bit of time and effort is trying to get the word out that folks who frequent lifestyle resorts simply because they want a nudist experience in a more luxury environment, that they do have choices of places to go that aren't lifestyle oriented. Unfortunately, the lifestyle resorts have the advertising budgets and the little nudist places don't. Even the larger places in Palm Springs can't advertise like the big lifestyle resorts so they can't compete on the advertising. So, we depend on the nudist community to help get the message out. But, because of the disparate views of what social nudity is, we see folks bash the different resorts because they don't offer "their" kind of nudist setting which is unfortunate.

As for FP's comment about finding folks to operate C/O B&B's...he's exactly right. The hardest part of the business is finding hosts with the right mindset that have a property that is properly nudist friendly. We get inquiries all the time from people who might have a beautiful home, but just want to party with nekkid people...not for us. Or the lonely older gentleman who lives in a condo with a partially private balcony who thinks it would be great to host. It's taken us much longer to build the network, but better slow and careful.

And now to the comment about FP coming to AZ...I've given up on that a LONG time ago! :-)


Enjoy the sunshine!

MrsAZLagoon-AKA C-OHome
www.ClothingOptionalHomeNetwork.com



Edited by - MrsAzLagoon on 12/17/2014 3:34:10 PM

Country: USA | Posts: 259 Go to Top of Page

FireProf
Forum Member


Posted - 12/17/2014 :  3:47:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the vote of confidence ... we'll look elsewhere then. ;-)

Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



Country: USA | Posts: 3175 Go to Top of Page

MrsAzLagoon
Forum Member


Posted - 12/17/2014 :  3:48:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit MrsAzLagoon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This just came out today from NACORBA...timely to our conversation.

http://www.nacorba.org/nudist-resort-life-cycle/


Enjoy the sunshine!

MrsAZLagoon-AKA C-OHome
www.ClothingOptionalHomeNetwork.com



Country: USA | Posts: 259 Go to Top of Page

MrsAzLagoon
Forum Member


Posted - 12/17/2014 :  3:50:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit MrsAzLagoon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireProf

Thanks for the vote of confidence ... we'll look elsewhere then. ;-)




Enjoy the sunshine!

MrsAZLagoon-AKA C-OHome
www.ClothingOptionalHomeNetwork.com



Country: USA | Posts: 259 Go to Top of Page

FireProf
Forum Member


Posted - 12/17/2014 :  9:39:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrsAzLagoon

quote:
Originally posted by FireProf

Thanks for the vote of confidence ... we'll look elsewhere then. ;-)




Enjoy the sunshine!

MrsAZLagoon-AKA C-OHome
www.ClothingOptionalHomeNetwork.com





Loves being naked. Plays well with others!



Country: USA | Posts: 3175 Go to Top of Page

gnarlyoldman
Forum Member

Posted - 12/18/2014 :  3:00:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I stayed in a CO B&B near Tuscon, AZ once. It wasn't doing very well as a business. I would enjoy staying at CO places more if they were in a city location. A CO hotel or B&B in Seattle, for example, would be a place I could stay fairly often. I think it would do well. It would not have to turn away textile guests, just inform all guest that clothing is not required in the pool and about the premises. I do that anyway at the Best Western sometimes. Most hotel management doesn't seem to mind someone getting naked in the pool if nobody else complains, especially late in the evening.

Seems to me that the practice of putting CO/nudist resorts way out of town is nice for a vacation, but inconvenient for an overnight stay on a business trip, for example Most people who travel are going to population centers, not looking for a rustic place out of town. There must be a place for CO destinations in population centers. I looked up the Home Network in Oregon, the closest to me, and its a long way from Portland or other Oregon cities. The last time I was in Bend, OR, was more than 50 years ago, but I've been to Portland and Eugene every year or two. As a business model, go where the customers are. Just a thought.


Naked is green.



Country: USA | Posts: 254 Go to Top of Page

Admin
Forum Admin


Posted - 12/18/2014 :  3:21:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"Some may like to sunbathe or read under an umbrella while others may seek yoga, nature hikes or a competitive game of tennis."

The article from NACORBA just mentioned by MrsAzLagoon is correct in this regard. Nudists vary greatly in the style of nudism they prefer, even among traditional nudist venues. Where can you quickly find a list of destinations offering nude horseback riding, golfing, or nude yoga? What if your particular poison is nude poker, live entertainment or chlorine-free pools? I'm working on a website concept to speed things up in this regard.

Here's a chart of public interest in nudist, naturist and swinger topics since 2005, courtesy of Google Trends.



As you can see, we have a problem. I wonder what happened in late 2005 that dropped nudist interest so dramatically? There are a few more charts over here, along with some other insight into my experience running Nudist-Resorts.Org.

As the internet and internet-capable personal devices become more ubiquitous, the average potential nudist gets more and more of their expectations from internet sources, as opposed to word of mouth. Perception is reality. Our traditional nudist publications blast the viewer with images of FOWNPs (see Doc's opening comment) and one would naturally assume nudists spend much of their time giving each other award plaques and posing for group photos. Who wouldn't want to spend their vacation doing that?

Other nudist publications, this one included, have made efforts to offer a more marketing oriented approach to resorts, only to find it's often difficult to gain the trust needed for a marketing campaign to get off the ground. If you're not AANR, why should they trust you? Years ago, my overtures to AANR-Florida were soundly rejected because the word sex appeared on our front page. It still does, and that hasn't changed. The other "s" word was never printed in an AANR publication, so the lifestyle swingers began to eat their lunch.

Care should be taken to counter the resorts that bait-and-switch nudism for swinging. They prey on those that don't know the difference. These places take your vacation money, then you find out what you bought. Every time this happens we get one less customer next time. Why would we let these parasitic businesses do this to us? It destroys our customer base, and it distorts perception of what nudism really means—our brand.

I've always felt what the nudist economy needs most is awareness of our offerings, our values, and advice to avoid unwelcome surprises. This is why NRO is still operating, despite precious little financial support. The work is ongoing, and needed now more than ever.

First, the public needs to become aware of some key points.
  • Nudist are not swingers.
  • Not all nudists are FOWNPs.
  • You need to experience how a relaxing nudist venue is healthier for your soul and body.
  • It's possible to find a nudist destination that's just right for you.
I believe those points cannot be hammered enough.

Have you noticed the difference in new visitors to NRO since the early days? The number of perverts has dropped to almost zero. I take this to mean we're getting these messages out through our members' excellent posting. Giving you guys and girls a wider voice on the internet has always been my goal. Millions have seen Nudist-Resorts.Org around the world. I believe we have succeeded in shifting public awareness toward accurate perception of the nudist. But the above chart shows that much work remains.

If I had a dozen or so volunteers to help provide the data, I could activate the nudist database that I've been working on lately. Instead of weeks, it could take you seconds to find that destination you're looking for, whether for nude bowling or nude knitting. You could limit your search to locations with resort-wide wifi, or those with non-smoking policies. I don't know if someone has done this, but it would require sufficient volunteer efforts to populate the database with accurate info.

And it has to pay for itself somehow, without creating resistance to participation. As I've mentioned before, resorts are reluctant to participate in marketing unless your name begins with two "A"s. Banner advertising is rather ineffectual these days. Charging for viewing only keeps the search engines from indexing your content. I haven't yet worked out the business model.

This could be an improvement in today's fast paced lifestyle, for those that don't have the time to wade through our 52,000 NRO pages listed on Google. Each of those pages can be used to advertise our new nudist solution to instant answers. This can help connect those with money to those needing it.

Perhaps I can get some volunteers to help me to hunt down all the data.



Country: USA | Posts: 1888 Go to Top of Page

MrsAzLagoon
Forum Member


Posted - 12/18/2014 :  3:47:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit MrsAzLagoon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gnarlyoldman


Seems to me that the practice of putting CO/nudist resorts way out of town is nice for a vacation, but inconvenient for an overnight stay on a business trip, for example Most people who travel are going to population centers, not looking for a rustic place out of town. There must be a place for CO destinations in population centers. I looked up the Home Network in Oregon, the closest to me, and its a long way from Portland or other Oregon cities. The last time I was in Bend, OR, was more than 50 years ago, but I've been to Portland and Eugene every year or two. As a business model, go where the customers are. Just a thought.


Thanks for the comment, GOM. Most of our locations are in more metro or at least suburban areas...LA, Phoenix, Guadalajara, Sarasota. The issue with resorts being more urban is 2 things....cost of property and privacy/acceptance. Nice to think the city folk would welcome nudists with open arms...but not likely to happen in our lifetimes. We plug away finding properties that are nudist friendly with appropriate nudist hosts to run them...not an easy feat! By the way, Alpenglow Ranch in Bend is our 2nd busiest location.

Also, don't know if you are brave or lack judgement swimming nude in a hotel pool since it ain't legal! Doesn't matter what the manager says. Mom with her delicate kids who happen to see you are the ones who would cause you problems. Find a good nudist location so your nude swimming won't put you in a stripped suit.



Enjoy the sunshine!

MrsAZLagoon-AKA C-OHome
www.ClothingOptionalHomeNetwork.com



Country: USA | Posts: 259 Go to Top of Page

NaturistDoc
Forum Member


Posted - 12/18/2014 :  8:37:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Admin!!! You're back! Yayyyyy! #9829;#65038;#9829;#65038;#9829;#65038;#9829;#65038;

And MrsAZLagoon, don't give up on FireProf. After all, WE got there eventually.



Country: USA | Posts: 1054 Go to Top of Page

NaturistDoc
Forum Member


Posted - 12/18/2014 :  8:48:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmm. My previous post was supposed to have a series of little heart symbols, not a bunch of code. Oh, well, I tried.

Fascinating chart, Admin, if a bit depressing. I was also wondering what happened in late 2005 or early 2006 to cause "nudist" and "swinger" to swap places, but it's nice to see that we had a relative comeback in 2009. I think that aggregating "nudist", "naturist", and "clothing optional" might yield more impressive numbers. Maybe I can get Google Trends to do that.



Country: USA | Posts: 1054 Go to Top of Page

gnarlyoldman
Forum Member

Posted - 12/19/2014 :  3:16:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrsAzLagoon

Also, don't know if you are brave or lack judgement swimming nude in a hotel pool since it ain't legal! Doesn't matter what the manager says. Mom with her delicate kids who happen to see you are the ones who would cause you problems. Find a good nudist location so your nude swimming won't put you in a stripped suit.



In my state (and quite a few others) being naked isn't actually illegal unless you are overtly "intending to cause someone alarm or affront." The Legislature had an opportunity but chose not to simply outlaw public nudity.

Being naked in the pool or hot tub at a hotel is legal if all you are doing is enjoying the water. Yes, police state often enforces tyranny rather than rule of law, so you can get arrested in many places without breaking the law.

However it has been my experience that hotel management doesn't want a scene and won't call the police. The worst they will do is to ask you to put on some clothing. Other times not. One time I was standing naked next to the hot tub drying off at Best Wester when the female desk clerk came over and informed me that the pool area closes at 11 PM. She invited me to come back in the morning when their hours reopened. Not a problem being naked at all. Not mentioned.

Bob




Naked is green.



Country: USA | Posts: 254 Go to Top of Page

Bill Bowser
Forum Member


Posted - 12/19/2014 :  9:46:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If there's a lawyer reading this I hope he or she will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the laws covering public nudity or indecent exposure apply in places like hotels and motels. I don't believe they are considered public places.

Of course the owner or their representative could probably have a nude person arrested for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace, but in the case of simple nudity I think that is pretty unlikely.

Bill Bowser - Cincinnati
Not lewd, not crude, just nude.

Nudists are everywhere, but they're hard to identify with their clothes on.



Country: USA | Posts: 345 Go to Top of Page
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