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NaturistDoc
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 Posted - 09/02/2015 : 4:37:37 PM
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The latest issue of “N” has the results of a Zogby poll done on behalf of the Naturist Education Foundation to assess American views on nude recreation. Overall, the numbers haven’t changed greatly compared to similar polls done in 2000 and 2006. However, a close look at the numbers (data mining) reveals a few interesting points.
Question 1 is “Do you agree or disagree that people should be able to enjoy nude sunbathing on a beach or other location that is accepted for that purpose?” 65% agreed, and the article touted this as “Continued Strong Support for Nude Sunbathing”. While it’s true that 65% is a strong majority, that number represents a continuing sharp decline in support compared to the 80% found in 2000 and 74% in 2006. We’re actually losing 1% per year.
On the other hand, responses to Question 2 indicate increasing majority support for the State and Federal governments to set aside areas for C/O recreation. Go figure.
I was mildly appalled that fully one-third of respondents to Question 7 believed that shows like “Naked & Afraid”, “Dating Naked”, and “Buying Naked” presented “an accurate portrayal” of folks like us. Curiously, men were 3 times as likely as women to believe it. Must mean something.
Question 8 is “How likely is it that you would consider going nude at a clothing-optional beach if you knew it was safe and legal?” Overall, 28% said “Likely” but the breakdown by age bracket was interesting. 18-29: 43%; 30-49: 32%; 50-64: 30%; 65+: 10%. This would suggest that the age distribution at nude beaches would be skewed towards relatively younger people, but my own observations have shown the exact opposite to be true, i.e., more over 50 than under.
And lastly, politics. The article doesn’t offer much detail of how one’s politics influences one’s views on nude recreation, but what little they do say suggests that liberals view it more favorably than conservatives, and in a “dose-dependent” fashion. And more respondents (32%) said they were "less likely" to support a candidate who favored C/O ares on public land than those (24%) who were "more likely" to support such a candidate. So don't expect strong endorsements of nude recreation from the Presidential candidates. Well ... Trump might.
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 09/02/2015 : 5:39:23 PM
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Interesting poll. It reminds me how moderating this site has changed over the years. Very early on, we were plagued with the sexual thrill seekers, requiring their removal almost daily. That has gradually tapered off year after year. These days, it seems we have succeeded in imprinting on the world's perception that nudism is more than simply displaying one's genitalia in mixed company in the pursuit of sexual opportunity.
Now we have popular shows featuring what the producers call "nudism." Well, nakedism, more precisely.
I think one dynamic we may be seeing is that many males still think nudism is simply displaying one's manhood to others. So of course all these shows accurately depict nudism, because the male appendage is present and accounted for. I feel the feminine gender has, in general, a more nuanced understanding of the nudist culture and values.
I'm not surprised to see we are losing around one percent a year in public support. We try not to mix and confuse swing resorts with nudist resorts in this forum, but other's efforts to intentionally confuse the two have had its intended effect. Perhaps every year one percent more of the public isn't putting up with the shenanigans. You couldn't expect our support to increase unless our branding includes the proven ability to keep our house clean.
The same goes for nude beaches. When people think of a nude beach, do they also picture the nude ambassadors keeping the behavior in check? Nope. Many would picture the free-for-all behavior depicted on websites and in print.
Lastly, perhaps the older generation is more aware of these issues, and though they might attend beaches they've become accustomed to visit, they might be less enthusiastic to give their unguarded approval to more locations being established.
Being a marketing guy, I feel it ultimately comes down to a branding issue. What is nudism to the average joe?
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gnarlyoldman
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Posted - 09/02/2015 : 6:16:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Admin
I think one dynamic we may be seeing is that many males still think nudism is simply displaying one's manhood to others. So of course all these shows accurately depict nudism, because the male appendage is present and accounted for. I feel the feminine gender has, in general, a more nuanced understanding of the nudist culture and values.
I'm not clear what you mean by females having more understanding of nudist culture and values? Do you equate "nudist culture" with "female values"? If so, perhaps that is part of the decline of public support. For myself, I actively promote being naked, but avoid being "nudist" including "nudist values." I'm curious about your meaning here. What gives females a better understanding of "nudist values"?
quote:
The same goes for nude beaches. When people think of a nude beach, do they also picture the nude ambassadors keeping the behavior in check? Nope. Many would picture the free-for-all behavior depicted on websites and in print.
Just this week I looked up nude beaches near Eugene, Oregon. There was confusing information about a beach that had been traditional nudist for decades. Google landed me on a gay web site for "Gay Action" that listed the beach as a place for gay public sex. In recent times the City of Eugene and Lane County have made simple nudity illegal and done their best to shut down nudity (and "Gay Action") on the beach. I'm not going to fight that. I'll just visit Eugene with my pants on.
Similar things have been happening to traditional nudist places across the country and with similar public disgust. Its not PC to even discuss it on most web sites. In Eugene they banned all nudity rather than speak anything non-PC about "Gay Action" on a public beach. As a "branding" issue the public perception is failing.
Naked is green.
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 09/02/2015 : 11:02:18 PM
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I'm sorry to hear about what's happening in Eugene. It's a good example, isn't it?
Beyond the simple fact of being nude in mixed company, "nudism" embraces many values that some, as you suggest, would rather do without. These values can include the trust women place in the gents not to gawk, the higher quality of camaraderie among traditional nudists, the lifelong friendships that often result, the aspects of better health in the sun and air, and most importantly to the woman would be that this environment is a wholesome one for the kids. These are all family oriented values, more deeply recognized by our female halves than the usual guy that just wants to let his junk hang out.
There are exceptions to every rule of course. I've seen many women whose behavior is entirely unsuited for a family oriented nudist event, and many men deserving the best respect as nudists. But in general I believe the ladies are quicker to "get" social nudism and its not-so-obvious benefits.
Many don't want to think of branding, marketing, or anything beyond the immediate weekend. But depending on how you do the math that the Doc has pointed out, you might hear zero favorable mentions of nudist resorts or nude beaches 65 years from now if we don't wake up and do something about it. Steadily losing 1 percent of the public's support every year is, well, rather catastrophic.
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Warmskin
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Posted - 09/08/2015 : 7:47:36 PM
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I can't beat Shakespeare when it comes to nudism, an people's opinion of nudism:
"There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
William Shakespeare
“I rise early almost every morning and sit in my chamber, without any clothes whatever, half an hour or an hour, according to the season, either reading or writing.”
Ben Franklin
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nudesunguy
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Posted - 09/12/2015 : 9:03:23 PM
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Interesting poll. Now, wouldn't one think with the trend toward "clothing optional" instead of nude we would see an increase in people open to nude sunbathing? That fact that we are seeing the reverse is interesting and depressing.
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baie rouge nudists
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Posted - 09/17/2015 : 4:56:37 PM
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We read the same article as we are members of The Naturist Society. Unfortunately it doesn't mean damn thing. Clothing optional beaches are being forced to close because of the whims of political leaders. Giving money to the NAC is all well and good, but when your local c/o beach has been closed down for 3 years and the Naturist Sciety doesn't bother to reply to your inquiries, it's time to rethink membership and the validity of the poll.
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NaturistDoc
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Posted - 09/17/2015 : 9:43:40 PM
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You have a point. AANR and TNS keep assuring us that Nude Rec is growing by leaps and bounds, and maybe it is ... somewhere. But in the US, it's difficult to make that case. We've lost several legal or quasi-legal nude or C/O beaches, and I can't recall any new resorts opening up in years. NAC and the AANR Government Affairs team may not be the most effective lobbyists in the world, but if not them, who?
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gnarlyoldman
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Posted - 09/18/2015 : 5:51:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by NaturistDoc
You have a point. AANR and TNS keep assuring us that Nude Rec is growing by leaps and bounds, and maybe it is ... somewhere. But in the US, it's difficult to make that case. We've lost several legal or quasi-legal nude or C/O beaches, and I can't recall any new resorts opening up in years. NAC and the AANR Government Affairs team may not be the most effective lobbyists in the world, but if not them, who?
I saw a report that AANR membership is declining at about 1% per year. Apparently nudist resorts and reserves are not a winning strategy.
Meanwhile we see news stories and Internet discussions about people who are just going naked where they live. This is in New York City where being naked is still supposedly illegal but the people are doing it anyway in increasing numbers.
http://observer.com/2015/07/naked-in-new-york-why-more-of-us-are-taking-it-all-off/
Naked is green.
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Edited by - gnarlyoldman on 09/18/2015 5:54:12 PM |
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sailawaybob
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Posted - 09/18/2015 : 8:34:08 PM
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i was curious in question 8 where young people as opposed to older supporting nude beaches but it seems to me that the reason nudist resorts are declining is due to young people shying away, maybe they don't like tall fences or joining things . as for the nude beaches i see very few young folks compared to middle age or older there. also interesting is the support or non support of government over nude beaches - if they can make a buck they will possibly support it, in florida another nude beach has been supported by local government and i'm sure the tourist $$$ has helped in persuading it .
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Warmskin
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Posted - 09/19/2015 : 01:55:34 AM
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It may be that organized nudism is having some problems with attendance because this is an era of not belonging to established groups or organizations. I do notice that nude beaches at the ocean, and nude beaches on rivers, have many people going there.
Traditionalism ain't what it used to be.
“I rise early almost every morning and sit in my chamber, without any clothes whatever, half an hour or an hour, according to the season, either reading or writing.”
Ben Franklin
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baie rouge nudists
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Posted - 09/21/2015 : 2:21:46 PM
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Organization is the key. There is the Travasuns group on Long Island, but we need organization to keep the beach legitimate. Too often there was a small minority that used the beach as a free-for-all. Poor behavior and a lack of volunteers to keep order and work with the authorities, maybe the beach might not have been lost. We need help from AANR and NS to help us organize.
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Bill Bowser
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Posted - 09/21/2015 : 4:40:57 PM
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It is always interesting to see the results of the polls that reveal how people regard our favorite lifestyle. It is also very interesting to hear how the results are interpreted. A change of a few percentage points can change ones outlook from optimism to pessimism, or vice versa. But so many of us observe these sorts of things as if it were an abstract experiment conducted in some isolated laboratory and nothing more than a curiosity.
We all have the capability to help or hinder the naturist movement. If we're not satisfied with the current situation then we should be doing something to change it. Despite the promises of politicians, no one is interested in solving your problems; they're too busy trying to solve their own. It is definitely a do-it-yourself project.
Our national organizations can offer very little assistance in furthering the cause because they are too small and they have such meager resources which are sorely needed for conventions and such. But I digress. Our reluctance to reveal ourselves to our friends and neighbors (no pun intended) allows most of society to believe that we are some sort of tiny fringe group of sexual perverts who like to play volleyball and can be ignored.
Although there are many more folks who practice social nudism or nude recreation to some degree than there are LGBT people, we have far less political power than they do. That's because they came out of the closet and we didn't. They demanded an end to the discrimination and mistreatment they faced. We're too timid to do that. Instead we discuss the polls which may indicate that our lifestyle is fading from the scene, or not. Oh well...
Bill Bowser - Cincinnati
Not lewd, not crude, just nude.
Nudists are everywhere, but they're hard to identify with their clothes on.
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Edited by - Bill Bowser on 09/21/2015 4:46:53 PM |
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Admin
Forum Admin
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Posted - 09/21/2015 : 6:28:38 PM
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Bill, I see your point about the LGBT strategies.
I wonder what sort of events, whether protests, or charities, or something attention getting would help us establish ourselves as a mainstream demographic that refuses to be forgotten?
Does anyone have a list of the sorts of events that have worked, or fizzled out?
I can think of nude bike runs and record skinny dipping parties. Only the former reaches out into the public space.
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Bill Bowser
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Posted - 09/22/2015 : 10:07:21 PM
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A little research on the internet reveals a great deal about successful strategies in various social movements in the USA and other parts of the world. In every successful movement there was a substantial number of individuals who were willing to face the obstacles and confront those who stood in their way. These activists were not reluctant to identify with their movement as most nudists are. Until there are enough of us who are willing to stand up for our rights we will continue to face discrimination. Hoping that if we act nice others will like us just doesn't work. Other people's attitude toward nudism will not change unless change is forced on them. Laws prohibiting public nudity will not change until society has a better understanding of what nude recreation really is. Only we nudists can improve this situation, but we seem to be unwilling to make the effort.
Those who are interested in the strategy used by the gay rights movement in the US will want to check this out:
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/issues/gay_strategies/overhauling.html It is a very interesting read and has some ideas we could use.
Bill Bowser - Cincinnati
Not lewd, not crude, just nude.
Nudists are everywhere, but they're hard to identify with their clothes on.
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Edited by - Bill Bowser on 09/22/2015 11:15:45 PM |
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nudesunguy
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Posted - 09/29/2015 : 10:05:18 AM
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Some good points, Bill. It's interesting that coming out as gay/trans is nowadays seen as a positive thing. I've never heard any celebration for someone coming out as a nudist, more likely the opposite; think "weirdo." If anything, nude beaches at least should be booming these days. Instead, I see the opposite happening (finding them nowadays is as simple as clicking a link, as opposed to mailing away for a book). The bottom line is that nudism is no longer "fashionable", especially among the young, and until that changes the numbers will continue to decline. I suspect this is just where our society is at this time, and I don't think there is much a bunch of old nudists can do to change things.
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