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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/21/2014 : 6:45:04 PM
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Here is a VERY good question for everyone here. In another thread we’ve had it recommended that people keep for want of a better word a “go bag” in their car(s), garage, or outside shed. In case of an emergency, so that IF (and hopefully that’ll never come to pass) they find themselves the victim of some sort of disaster/catastrophe they have some clothes to put on while waiting for first responders to show up.
My question is this, what if anything would be the legal ramifications if a person under said conditions was outside nude? Could they be ticketed/arrested? Another question along these lines, as we know many people even non-nudists sleep in the nude. And as anyone who has a TV set knows there are a LOT of people who have problems sleeping at night.
What would happen legally if a person “woke up” in “middle of the night” and suffered a bout of sleepwalking? I’m sure that we’ve all heard about people having sex while they slept, talking in their sleep, I think that even on some VERY rare occasions I have heard of people sleep driving. So what would the legal ramifications be if a person while sleepwalking left their home and was “out and about” while nude and sleep walking?
Live Long and Prosper Herman
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Country: USA
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Diger
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/21/2014 : 9:21:47 PM
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Herman,
First that is a very good question but I think you would be SOL. The officer, I believe, would laugh at you if you told him you were sleepwalking.
I'm on your side and I would think you were pulling a fast one. LOL
Diger
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Country: USA
| Posts: 1385 |
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/21/2014 : 10:10:27 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Diger
Herman,
First that is a very good question but I think you would be SOL. The officer, I believe, would laugh at you if you told him you were sleepwalking.
I’m on your side and I would think you were pulling a fast one. LOL
Diger
Diger,
Sadly, I am forced to agree with you that one would be SOL if one was sleepwalking while nude. I think and would hope though that LEOs would be willing to cut a person a little more slack if their house was on fire, hit by an earthquake, caught in a sink hole, etc. and they were trapped outside in the nude.
I got thinking about the aforementioned thread, i.e. the one that recommends keeping a “go bag” in one’s car, garage, outbuilding, etc. and sadly there are a few drawbacks to that plan. Not everyone drives or owns a car, I don’t, not everyone lives in a house and has a garage or similar outbuilding, again, I don’t, I live in an apartment. The backup plan is to keep a go bag by the front door, that presupposes that one will be able to get to the front door in an emergency, or even the backdoor. As well as it presupposes that the average person when confronted with such an emergency will not panic and will remember that they have a “go bag” by their front or backdoor, or in the car, garage or outbuilding, etc.
Live Long and Prosper Herman
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Country: USA
| Posts: 310 |
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FireProf
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/22/2014 : 03:21:57 AM
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I've encountered this many more times than one would think. Being the first on scene of a single family dwelling or a high rise apartment building, involved with fire and smoke. Depending on the number of nude people, we've either found them shelter, or put them in the fire engine or paramedic squad, giving disposable blankets and taken out of the elements, while we go to work.
The engineer, the guy/gal that pumps the water to the hoses, has time after he's/she's done their part of the extinguishment job, to look after the displaced/nude folks. Red cross is called and they are alerted to our needs on the scene. We will give them sex and age and approximate sizes of the victims and they will respond with clothing.
In the case of a house fire, we've always had neighbors willing to take in their naked and displaced neighbors, give them shelter, clothing and some place warm to stay. Sometimes, family arrives and take the nude displaced members home and then return when they've had a chance to get dressed.
During one apartment house fire, I was Incident Commander and did not enter the building to fight the fire. I gave a woman my turnout coat and pants to wear until her family came with clothing. Things are a bit different nowadays with cell phones and many times, family or friends are there before we are or soon after we are and we've arrived to see a nude person huddled on the sidewalk one minute and gone the next, only to find out that friends/family swooped them up and took them home.
In ALL cases ... PD was no only sympathetic but quite accommodating. Sleep walking is one thing but I think you'd have to really be convincing to pull the wool over some cops eyes. If you are impaired in anyway ... most cops I've worked with and dealt with are compassionate people and use common sense.
A person has just been displaced by fire and is naked on the street ... the last thing they need is a ticket for getting the hell outta the house. I think most cops think that way, anyway.
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
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Country: USA
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/22/2014 : 11:41:32 AM
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quote: Originally posted by FireProf
I’ve encountered this many more times than one would think. Being the first on scene of a single-family dwelling or a high-rise apartment building, involved with fire and smoke. Depending on the number of nude people, we’ve either found them shelter, or put them in the fire engine or paramedic squad, giving disposable blankets and taken out of the elements, while we go to work.
The engineer, the guy/gal that pumps the water to the hoses, has time after he’s/she’s done their part of the extinguishment job, to look after the displaced/nude folks. Red cross is called and they are alerted to our needs on the scene. We will give them sex and age and approximate sizes of the victims and they will respond with clothing.
In the case of a house fire, we’ve always had neighbors willing to take in their naked and displaced neighbors, give them shelter, clothing and some place warm to stay. Sometimes, family arrives and take the nude displaced members home and then return when they’ve had a chance to get dressed.
During one apartment house fire, I was Incident Commander and did not enter the building to fight the fire. I gave a woman my turnout coat and pants to wear until her family came with clothing. Things are a bit different nowadays with cell phones and many times, family or friends are there before we are or soon after we are and we’ve arrived to see a nude person huddled on the sidewalk one minute and gone the next, only to find out that friends/family swooped them up and took them home.
In ALL cases ... PD was not only sympathetic but quite accommodating. Sleepwalking is one thing but I think you’d have to really be convincing to pull the wool over some cops eyes. If you are impaired in anyway ... most cops I’ve worked with and dealt with are compassionate people and use common sense.
A person has just been displaced by fire and is naked on the street ... the last thing they need is a ticket for getting the hell outta the house. I think most cops think that way, anyway.
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
Fire,
That’s kind of what I thought, thank you for confirming that.
It makes sense that there are or should be plenty of people who can render some sort of aid to those who have been displaced by fire, or whatever other disaster.
Sadly, on the sleepwalking I think that unless one has medical records documenting their sleepwalking that you are right that one doing so while nude and outside of their home would have a tough battle on their hands.
Again that is good to hear, and makes sense. Although I am sure that there are some cops out there who are so “by the book” that even when someone has been the victim of some sort of disaster they’ve had to evacuate their home in the nude would still try to write them up.
Live Long and Prosper Herman
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Country: USA
| Posts: 310 |
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FireProf
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/22/2014 : 2:44:01 PM
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Unless a cop is on scene prior to fire dept arrival, which has been the case sometimes, he/she had better be giving the victim shelter and provide comfort, instead of writing out a ticket. He'd have hell to pay from his superiors and from me as the Fire Scene Commander. His first duty is the health and wellbeing for that person. He can "question" why that person was outside naked but to cite them for it ... I'd testify in the naked person's behalf against any cop citing a person naked after being displaced by an emergency. That being said ...
I've worked many different areas of Southern California and have only dealt with California Highway Patrol, LA County, Ventura County, Riverside County, Orange County and San Bernadino County Sheriffs, most all of the smaller city police departments and LAPD. I've never seen or heard of either of these Law Enforcement departments ever mistreating or citing a naked person that was displaced because of an emergency.
I'm being facetious but ... being naked outside your home because of fire, earthquake or other disaster/ emergency is a bit different than trying to sell the story to a cop that you saw a spider and got scared and ran out of your house naked. There's just another good reason to have a robe and slippers, tennis shoes, flip flops, ... something by your bed should you have to vacate quickly in an emergency.
I get those arguments on the other thread but ... I would challenge anyone to question or match my/our commitment to nudism, to being nudists just because we keep a robe and flip flops/slippers at the end of our bed each night ... just in case. I/we don't have to run out of the house naked to prove that.
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
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Edited by - FireProf on 10/22/2014 2:48:49 PM |
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Country: USA
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/23/2014 : 11:16:31 AM
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quote: Originally posted by FireProf
Unless a cop is on scene prior to fire dept arrival, which has been the case sometimes, he/she had better be giving the victim shelter and provide comfort, instead of writing out a ticket. He’d have hell to pay from his superiors and from me as the Fire Scene Commander. His first duty is the health and well being for that person. He can “question” why that person was outside naked but to cite them for it ... I’d testify in the naked person’s behalf against any cop citing a person naked after being displaced by an emergency. That being said ...
I’ve worked many different areas of Southern California and have only dealt with California Highway Patrol, LA County, Ventura County, Riverside County, Orange County and San Bernadino County Sheriffs, most all of the smaller city police departments and LAPD. I’ve never seen or heard of either of these Law Enforcement departments ever mistreating or citing a naked person that was displaced because of an emergency.
I’m being facetious but ... being naked outside your home because of fire, earthquake or other disaster/ emergency is a bit different than trying to sell the story to a cop that you saw a spider and got scared and ran out of your house naked. There’s just another good reason to have a robe and slippers, tennis shoes, flip flops, ... something by your bed should you have to vacate quickly in an emergency.
I get those arguments on the other thread but ... I would challenge anyone to question or match my/our commitment to nudism, to being nudists just because we keep a robe and flip flops/slippers at the end of our bed each night ... just in case. I/we don’t have to run out of the house naked to prove that.
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
Fire,
I completely and totally agree with you that the first first responder on the scene had better concern themselves with the well being of the displaced and NOT what they are or aren’t wearing.
That being said, though not only myself, but other cyclists have had encounters with LEOs who were so anal about what they “thought” was the law or what they thought was a “dangerous” situation in their mind. I refer to the Selz v Trotwood situation. In which a female officer thought that because it was “dangerous” in her mind for a cyclist to be on a particular road that she cited Mr. Selz for it. Myself about a decade or so ago as I was coming home from a free concert in downtown St. Pete I was pulled over by an off duty homicide traffic officer who started out with, “you and your clubs need to learn. . .” trailing off and switching to “I’m sick and tired of cleaning up your brains.” Then more recently I encountered a FHP officer who was misinformed as to what Fl law does and doesn’t say.
I’ve also have read plenty of first hand accounts from cyclists where after being involved in a crash with a motorist that their first encounter with a LEO is while they’re laid up in the hospital recovering from their injury/ies. And the LEO is there to issue them a ticket, NOT to get their side of what happened. So while I agree with you that in the case of fire or similar disaster that the LEOs on the scene need to concern themselves with the well being of the displaced/victim that sadly there are all types of LEOs out there and not all of them should be LEOs.
Again, I agree with you that one who discovers a “big ugly” spider or snake or what have you in their home is sadly going to have a hard time convincing either a LEO or a court that they were “scared” and “had” to leave their home nude.
I agree with you that just because one keeps a robe, or a towel, or a pair of shorts near the bed or by the front/backdoor in case of emergency doesn’t make them less of a nudist. It is the smart/prudent thing to do. The only “downside” that I can see is that most average people are likely to panic to one degree or another in those situation and are likely to “forget” that they have such things on hand in case of an emergency.
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Edited by - Digital_Cowboy on 10/23/2014 11:39:11 AM |
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Country: USA
| Posts: 310 |
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FireProf
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/23/2014 : 2:02:54 PM
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In all cases ... there are exceptions to the "rule." The rule being ... common sense. Just because a department gives you a badge doesn't necessarily mean you deserve to wear it. It doesn't automatically give you the respect you think you deserve ... you must work for and earn that respect. One of the many reasons firefighters are looked at, at much higher esteem and regard than cops. Firefighters help people. People think of Cops in this respect; always give you a ticket, pull you over and give you lectures, got nothing better to do than stop me for something so insignificant, go find some real criminals ... it's all bad with a cop ... that's the perception. It's not ALL cops, it's some or probably only a few that are like that. The thing to remember is that ... just because they are cops and wear a badge and write you a citation ... that's not the end all. FIGHT the damn ticket, if you feel the ticket is unjustified. There's only one way to get these types of cops to stop bullying people and hide behind their badges ... make them explain themselves in court!
I just watched a clip on You Tube from an episode of the Graham Norton show. He was interviewing Kate Winslet and a few others. She was asked about an incident where she saved someone's life in a fire. As Kate was telling the story about the incident she said ... "I told the children to get back in their rooms. I was heading down the hallway to get ??? out of her room but stopped by my room again to put on the bra. I then stopped and said ..."that will take too long, who cares ... there's a fire. So I helped ??? out of the house braless."
It's these types of people that we encounter most. She thought to put on a bra. Many people will start to walk out and go back inside for a cell phone. People go back into homes that are involved with fire for some of the dumbest things. Most people don't think ANYTHING is going to happen to them. I've witnessed what being prepared and not being prepared does to people. I chose not to put myself, my wife or my family in a situation where we are vulnerable, when we don't have to be with very little preparedness.
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
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Edited by - FireProf on 10/23/2014 2:06:24 PM |
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Country: USA
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/23/2014 : 5:41:10 PM
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quote: Originally posted by FireProf
In all cases ... there are exceptions to the “rule.” The rule being ... common sense. Just because a department gives you a badge doesn’t necessarily mean you deserve to wear it. It doesn’t automatically give you the respect you think you deserve ... you must work for and earn that respect. One of the many reasons firefighters are looked at, at much higher esteem and regard than cops. Firefighters help people. People think of Cops in this respect; always give you a ticket, pull you over and give you lectures, got nothing better to do than stop me for something so insignificant, go find some real criminals ... it’s all bad with a cop ... that’s the perception. It’s not ALL cops, it’s some or probably only a few that are like that. The thing to remember is that ... just because they are cops and wear a badge and write you a citation ... that’s not the end all. FIGHT the damn ticket, if you feel the ticket is unjustified. There’s only one way to get these types of cops to stop bullying people and hide behind their badges ... make them explain themselves in court!
Agreed, fortunately in my case no citation was ever issued. Although I had to laugh at the FHP officer, even though he didn’t take any information from me only issued a verbal warning to include ordering me onto the sidewalk he tried to tell me that IF I was caught in the road again that I could be arrested. What he didn’t know is that I am friends with the St. Pete bicycle and pedestrian safety coordinator, I am also friends with a Cycling Savvy instructor, and I know a lawyer who practices traffic law with an eye towards how it applies to bicycles.
Also on my way home from the VA I crossed paths with a Pinellas County Sheriffs deputy and was able to flag him down and he had confirmed for me that none of the things that he had told me was true. So I asked him if I could get back into the lane where I felt safer, and he said yes. I shook his hands and resumed my travel in the travel lane.
I agree with you that the only way to get the bad cops off of the force is to stand up to them and make them answer for their actions in court. But sadly it seems like in most cases the deck is stacked against us cyclists. As we’re about the only group that has to explain why we were driving our vehicle where we were. There’s just a case going on currently in Ky. And I remember a few years ago hearing about a mother somewhere in that same general area who allowed her daughter to ride her bike to school and getting hammered in the local media for doing so.
quote: Originally posted by FireProfI just watched a clip on You Tube from an episode of the Graham Norton show. He was interviewing Kate Winslet and a few others. She was asked about an incident where she saved someone’s life in a fire. As Kate was telling the story about the incident she said ... “I told the children to get back in their rooms. I was heading down the hallway to get ??? out of her room but stopped by my room again to put on the bra. I then stopped and said ...”that will take too long, who cares ... there’s a fire. So I helped ??? out of the house braless.”
It’s these types of people that we encounter most. She thought to put on a bra. Many people will start to walk out and go back inside for a cell phone. People go back into homes that are involved with fire for some of the dumbest things. Most people don’t think ANYTHING is going to happen to them. I’ve witnessed what being prepared and not being prepared does to people. I chose not to put myself, my wife or my family in a situation where we are vulnerable, when we don’t have to be with very little preparedness.
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
It’s amazing what people will worry about when they should be focused on their safety. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that too many lives have been lost because some “ninny, just had to go back into a burning house” and “had to get their cell phone, or what have you.” Most things, pictures and the like aside can be replaced. Life on the other hand cannot be replaced. And even pictures are NOT worth someone risking their life to get them.
And it is even scarier how many people do not have some sort of plan in case of an emergency.
Live Long and Prosper Herman
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Country: USA
| Posts: 310 |
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FireProf
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/24/2014 : 01:16:25 AM
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Sadly ... most of the people I pulled, dead, from a burning house, went back in for a pet. The pets have done either of two things. 1) escaped out a door, window ... something, and are long gone because they were scared. Or ... 2) have hidden under a bed until they've died from smoke inhalation. I'm a pet lover but not at the expense of one's own life.
...and I've saved my share of pets ... dogs, cats, hamsters, rabbits, birds and fish ... in my 32 years. Cats are the worse. Always thankful to have that thick jacket on when pulling cat out from under a bed or piece of furniture. They don't take too kindly to firefighters in full firefighting gear!
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
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Country: USA
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Diger
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/24/2014 : 8:09:50 PM
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The thought of you pulling a cat out from under the bed is to funny. Thank God for the safety gear.
While reading this thread, one problem for us nudist I was thinking about is not, remembering the emergency clothes, but remembering we are naked. I believe some of us would be out he door, me included, without even thinking about not having clothes on.
Diger
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Country: USA
| Posts: 1385 |
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Nude in AK
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/25/2014 : 1:32:45 PM
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I agree, a lot of us, give not a thought about being nude!
quote: Originally posted by Diger
The thought of you pulling a cat out from under the bed is to funny. Thank God for the safety gear.
While reading this thread, one problem for us nudist I was thinking about is not, remembering the emergency clothes, but remembering we are naked. I believe some of us would be out he door, me included, without even thinking about not having clothes on.
Diger
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Country: USA
| Posts: 538 |
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FireProf
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/25/2014 : 5:32:58 PM
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I truly think you'd be surprised at what you'll remember and what you'll want to grab before you exit the house. Almost ALL people I've interviewed have stated that they've taken an extra few seconds to grab this, do that ... before heading out the door. My sincere hope is that none of you experience an emergency, like that, to prove my point!
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
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Edited by - FireProf on 10/25/2014 5:33:42 PM |
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Country: USA
| Posts: 3175 |
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/26/2014 : 9:06:23 PM
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quote: Originally posted by FireProf
Sadly ... most of the people I pulled, dead, from a burning house, went back in for a pet. The pets have done either of two things. 1) escaped out a door, window ... something, and are long gone because they were scared. Or ... 2) have hidden under a bed until they’ve died from smoke inhalation. I’m a pet lover but not at the expense of one’s own life.
...and I’ve saved my share of pets ... dogs, cats, hamsters, rabbits, birds and fish ... in my 32 years. Cats are the worse. Always thankful to have that thick jacket on when pulling cat out from under a bed or piece of furniture. They don’t take too kindly to firefighters in full firefighting gear!
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
Fire,
My pets, are the only things that I’d either go back or stay in for. I have a male Normal Grey Cockatiel, a female black DSH cat, and a G. rosea tarantula.
Yeah, I can imagine that, Deanna, my DSH is fully armed, and she’d probably wouldn’t be too happy at being pulled by someone in full firefighting equipment.
Live Long and Prosper Herman
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Country: USA
| Posts: 310 |
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Digital_Cowboy
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/26/2014 : 9:16:20 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Diger
The thought of you pulling a cat out from under the bed is to funny. Thank God for the safety gear.
While reading this thread, one problem for us nudist I was thinking about is not, remembering the emergency clothes, but remembering we are naked. I believe some of us would be out he door, me included, without even thinking about not having clothes on.
Diger
Diger,
This is true, many a time I have logged so many hours nude that I have to stop and think about whether or not I’m wearing clothes before stepping outside.
quote: Originally posted by Nude in AK
I agree, a lot of us, give not a thought about being nude!
NiA,
This is so true.
quote: Originally posted by FireProf
I truly think you’d be surprised at what you’ll remember and what you’ll want to grab before you exit the house. Almost ALL people I’ve interviewed have stated that they’ve taken an extra few seconds to grab this, do that ... before heading out the door. My sincere hope is that none of you experience an emergency, like that, to prove my point!
Loves being naked. Plays well with others!
Fire,
Sadly, I don’t think that it would. I was a medic when I was in the Army, so I know how irrational people can be during times of stress.
I fully second your sentiment, I sincerely hope that NONE here ever experience that kind of emergency.
Live Long and Prosper Herman
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Country: USA
| Posts: 310 |
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Warmskin
Forum Member
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Posted - 10/27/2014 : 12:02:33 AM
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I think most good cops would cut the nude sleepwalker of driver some slack, after there was a reasonable explanation of what the "offenders" proclivities are.
It might go to court if the police are not amenable to the offender's situation. I can't see this as a real problem, although it might be embarrassing.
You'd have to take preventative measures to make sure you can't sleepwalk out of your bedroom.
“I rise early almost every morning and sit in my chamber, without any clothes whatever, half an hour or an hour, according to the season, either reading or writing.” Ben Franklin
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