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old hippie
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Posted - 12/29/2008 : 02:12:10 AM
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quote: Originally posted by runninaroundnaked
folk like this man & those on the wnbr:are not helping the naturist cause.they've had their stunts & made their point.you can't win against a government.
. I must disagree. To the extent that people such as these give a hoot about any such "cause", they do it justice by living their life freely and honestly. As Honeysuckle said, if the man has harmed no one and broken no law, let him be. . It may be, however, that he has broken a law. If so, I think it incumbent upon the rest of the naturist community to take action to have that law changed or abolished. And yes, one CAN fight city hall. It can be from a position of authority, as when Commissioner Teddy Roosevelt cleaned up the NYC police force at the turn of the last century; or it can be through civil disobedience, such as Ghandi and M. L. King used. In either case, bringing extensive public pressure to bear by demonstrating the inherent moral correctness of one's action is a powerful force. It does demand a continued and disciplined organized activity, however. And I think it unlikely that many of the folks who appreciate nude recreation are willing (or able) to devote the time and energy that such a campaign would demand. If this fella is willing to march from Land's End to John O'Groats for no stronger reason than to show that he can - I say more power to him. And if he provides an example that encourages others to promote a more accepting attitude toward nude activities, then he will have been successful. This takes a lot more gumption than writing a letter to your Senator, or sending a check to NRA or Greenpeace. But unless or until a lot of people make a point of accepting public nudity (without public lewdity) we will have an uphill battle.
Dum vivimus, vivamus!
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FlCpl4NewdFun
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Posted - 12/29/2008 : 06:12:03 AM
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This man chose to abandon his children so he could walk around nude. There is NOTHING honorable or noble about that! He is clearly a selfish individual and a horrible ambassador for the cause of nudism. Seriously folks, you did read the articles didn't you? He left his kids, and you want this guy fighting the fight for nudism? To equate this to the struggles faced by women, blacks, and gays throughout our nations history is insulting. He is no Rosa Parks! In the words SNLs Weekend Update: "REALLY"
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Posted - 12/29/2008 : 10:36:55 AM
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This man chose to abandon his children so he could walk around nude. There is NOTHING honorable or noble about that! He is clearly a selfish individual and a horrible ambassador for the cause of nudism.
FlCpl, I understand what you're saying. The point I made was that he was causing no harm on his walk, and if he was breaking no laws, then he shouldn't be harrassed. I don't think his moral character (or lack of it) is really the issue.
If you don't like my profile picture, then use whiteout on your monitor.
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FlCpl4NewdFun
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Posted - 12/29/2008 : 11:01:47 AM
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quote: Originally posted by honeysuckle
This man chose to abandon his children so he could walk around nude. There is NOTHING honorable or noble about that! He is clearly a selfish individual and a horrible ambassador for the cause of nudism.
FlCpl, I understand what you're saying. The point I made was that he was causing no harm on his walk, and if he was breaking no laws, then he shouldn't be harrassed. I don't think his moral character (or lack of it) is really the issue.
If you don't like my profile picture, then use whiteout on your monitor.
Agreed, no harm in strolling around nude in and of itself. In fact that's one of our favorite things to do at a resort. You can swim in many places, but it's few and far between where my wife and I can stroll around the neighborhood sans clothes.
I do however think that while we as nudists are small in numbers we still should be selective in holding out individuals as ambassadors of the movement and not just assign anyone who drops their pants to the role.
While civil disobedience has a place in our society and much good has come about from it, I don't think it is universal. In the case of promoting nudism and nude recreation, working within the confines of local laws and norms and grassroots efforts to free beaches and gain public acceptance will likely yield better results.
Cheers!
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Posted - 12/29/2008 : 11:59:29 AM
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FlCpl ... I don't disagree with what you say at all. I wasn't really holding him out as an ambassador, though ... just some guy who did something that was kinda odd and was being hassled for it. Maybe I'm too naive.
This sorta reminds me of the discussion about baseball players who don't get into the Hall of Fame because of an issue related to their character, like drugs or gambling. I know it's not exactly the same thing ... but you see what I mean.
If you don't like my profile picture, then use whiteout on your monitor.
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Drakkus
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Posted - 12/29/2008 : 3:32:37 PM
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From those 2 stories, we don't know anything about his moral character. We know 2 things, he walked a very long distance naked, and refused to wear clothing while in jail. We also know that his wife says he abandoned his kids to do so. That's all we really know.
From the apparent anger in the quotes taken from his wife, and her general misunderstanding of his beliefs in nudism, I must say that I have trouble believing what she says is true. From what I read, his intention was to take a couple months and be back with his family, but he got arrested and detained along the way. We don't know what was going through his mind regarding his family while he was on this trip, we can only guess at any of that. Somebody's going to have to let us know what types of phone privileges you have in Englands jails, since I don't know and therefore can't make a judgment about that. I haven't seen anything concerning his response to her statements yet either, so I also can't make a judgment about those.
From the few verified facts that we do have, I have to say that I admire this man for his fortitude. Not too many people would be able to stick up for their beliefs as he did. It seems to me that his main mistake wasn't the walk at all, it was marrying the woman he did. This woman, in one single interview, has basically invalidated any positive outcome of his 7 month ordeal and made him out to be a villain. So, I still say that I admire this "Naked Rambler" and do think of his as a possible ambassador for the cause. At least, until we hear his side of the story concerning his children. But, I'm not going to base my opinion of anybody on the opinions of a bitter spouse.
Be True and Stay Naked, Drakkus
One is nothing more, and nothing less, than what they believe themselves to be.
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FlCpl4NewdFun
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Posted - 12/29/2008 : 5:29:24 PM
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Really Drakkus? You certainly have the opinion that the spouse is bitter and are freely passing judgement on her. How do you know she is bitter? Did you make some phone calls to determine the severity of her bitterness? Besides I could care less about the spouse, she's an adult. The only FACT we do know is he chose to go walking around the countryside instead of being with his kids and yes, I'll pass judgement on that every time.
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Drakkus
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Posted - 12/29/2008 : 8:57:04 PM
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The problem is, we don't know his original intent. If you read Admins "Starkers Raving Mad" post on page 1, you can actually see the anger in her voice over his exercise of his beliefs. She actually seems afraid for herself and her children simply because he refuses to wear clothes while swimming. I have trouble believing that this woman would have allowed him to talk to anybody, even had he called.
The thing that I admire this man for, is his ability to put himself LAST. His belief is so strong that he's willing to sacrifice everything, EVERYTHING, for what he believes in. Sure, his methods may not be the best, and his actions are definitely questionable, but he honestly believes that, through his actions, whatever the repercussions to himself, he can improve the lives of Nudists everywhere. To the point where maybe, just maybe, clothing will no longer be a requirement anywhere, and we can truly choose to wear whatever we want, even if that is nothing at all.
So what I admire this man for isn't necessarily what he's done, or will be doing in the future, but his dedication. This is a man who will do anything to further his cause, and I'll support a man like that any day. That is, until the day that he truly harms somebody, in which case my support will end.
Be True and Stay Naked, Drakkus
One is nothing more, and nothing less, than what they believe themselves to be.
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